Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2013

[Maia Welbourne]

What we're talking about here are the foundational legislative amendments that are necessary to go forward with an EOI system. There are other aspects to getting EOI up and running. We are developing costs. We're in discussions. We are reviewing them. They are still subject to decision, so I'm not able to—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Ministerial decision probably. What I'm hearing is ministerial discretion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Leung, go ahead.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Chair. Thank you, witnesses.

Successful immigration is often contingent on having a job already lined up that they can move into seamlessly. We have seen that, in the prior year, as the PNP, provincial nominee program, ramps up, we have 40,000-plus, if I'm correct.

As we move forward, how do you see the EOI system increasing the PNP nominees?

[Maia Welbourne]

Again, I don't think there's a direct relationship between EOI and the numbers of individuals arriving in Canada under the provincial nominee program or any other economic stream. The annual levels plan is the vehicle through which those numbers are established every year.

EOI becomes a pre-application stage, mandatory for certain economic streams. We're in discussions with provinces and territories about their interest in using EOI for provincial nominee programs. Coming at it another way, it is a potential recruitment tool for provinces, territories, and employers to have access to a new group of individuals, prospective immigrants, those who've made it into the EOI pool.

It’s a way of making connections between employers and these candidates and potentially with provinces and territories if they are interested.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

From the time an immigrant is selected to come in, there is a lag time of perhaps six months or more, up to a year. Within the system as we envision it, or that you can share with us, after they come to a particular province under the provincial nominee system, is there a framework or an ability there for them to migrate to other provinces that may need their job requirements? I'm thinking of seasonal work. Let's say we go ahead with the pipeline and welders come to Ontario. Is their ability to migrate to another province within the framework of how we envision the program?

[Maia Welbourne]

Yes.

Once any individual arrives in Canada as a permanent resident, they have full mobility rights. They can work wherever they please, so—

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

So they're not held to a province.

[Maia Welbourne]

No.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

All right, let me move to another aspect of the EOI.

What mechanism is there to safeguard against people fraudulently upgrading their skills, whether it be their academic level, language skills, or credentials? Something as technical, as you say, as a lens grinder. These are very trade oriented. How do we safeguard that the information is correct in EOI?

[Maia Welbourne]

Individuals will fill in an online form and that information will be assessed by the automated system to determine if they meet the minimum entry criteria and can be admitted to the pool. That's all automated so there is no officer check at that stage. Only after an individual has been invited to apply and then submits an application for permanent residence will the information be verified.

Officers will be able to ensure that the information provided through the online form is backed up by the documentation and the proof necessary at the application for permanent residence stage. If an individual has been found to have misrepresented themselves, then the general IRPA provisions related to misrepresentation would apply. Those are fairly significant and can result in an individual being barred from reapplying for permanent residence for a period of five years.

It will be important for us to be very clear as we design and build the system that individuals are aware of the consequences of providing false information up front on the EOI online tool, because it will be verified at the application for permanent residence stage, and there could be serious consequences.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is my pleasure to be on the committee. It's the first time I've ever been on the citizenship and immigration committee.

I have a couple of questions and I'd like to refer to your presentation, if I could.

One part is just because I don't understand or don't know information. You say “by only issuing 'invitations to apply' to the number of applicants that we can process”, so based on that, so we don't end up with the huge backlog that we have nowadays, the new system wouldn't do that. One line says, “inventories that accumulated in the past”, which I understand, and also “the associated legal risk”.

What is the legal risk? I don't understand what the legal risk is. I'm assuming we're not legally responsible for those who have applied and happen to be on a waiting list. Can you tell me what that is?

[Maia Welbourne]

I'll turn to James if he needs to fill in more. Essentially, there's a mandamus risk in that once we receive an application, we are obliged to process it to conclusion. We also are required to do so within a reasonable time, and the bigger the backlogs are and the longer the time from submission of the application to rendering a decision, the greater the legal risk.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Is that legal risk that's been proven in a court in Canada?

[James McNamee]

Yes, there have been a few issues in which mandamus has been successful, and we've been mandated to process applications to expedite folks who have been waiting for a long time.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

One of the answers could be, “No, you can't come; you're not getting here.” Would that end the discussion then?

[Maia Welbourne]

As I say, once we've received an application, we must process it to a final decision, and a final decision based on—

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

It could be no.

[Maia Welbourne]

It could be no, but a “no” would have to be based on the substance of the application rather than another reason related to needing to expedite a decision.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you.

My second question is regarding consulting Canadian employers when you're building this system.

I have an acquaintance who is technically, I would say, in the temporary employer business, but they don't deal with office staff. They deal with high-end, highly skilled engineers. Those individuals stay on their payroll. If a company out west needs somebody to do some technical work for them for a year, two years, or five, whatever, they stay on that company's payroll, not on the payroll of the company they are doing the work for.

You're probably working on it, but where is the decision-making on who gets access to that list of potential employees? Do companies like that in the private sector get it? Or is it just government job banks that are going to have access to it? What's the thinking at this point? I know you're working through the process, but who will get access to those names of qualified potential employees?

[Maia Welbourne]

We are working with the ESDC on the job bank as one potential platform for employers and others to access EOI candidates. To be consistent, whatever decisions are about who may access the job bank will inform who can access EOI candidates through the job bank.

In addition, we are recognizing, in fact encouraging, in an EOI world, these candidates to also market themselves in other ways. One of the approaches we're looking at is giving them what we've been terming a unique identifier, which shows the world that they've been accepted through the first phase into the EOI pool—they are a prospective immigrant; they are looking for work in this context—recognizing that there are all sorts of private job-matching sites that will be of interest to EOI candidates and others.

It's a way of helping them give proof that they've made it through a first step in the road to immigration. Those platforms, whether its Workopolis or Monster, are available to the people who subscribe and so on. We don't really control who accesses those. It's likely to be a bit of a hybrid approach.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you. Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you everyone for being here.

Does any of you know why this measure was introduced in a budget implementation bill as opposed to a separate piece of legislation?

[Maia Welbourne]

As I noted in my opening remarks, there were references to expression of interest in both the most recent economic action plan as well as the economic action plan in 2012.