Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 18th, 2019

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Oliphant (Don Valley West, Lib.)), Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm calling to order the 148th meeting of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

The subject matter for the first hour is the supplementary estimates (B), 2018-19, votes 1b, 10b and 15b under the Department of Citizenship and Immigration.

Thanks to the officials for returning. You were with us when the minister appeared, and we requested your return, and you graciously did that on the day we wanted, so it's even better.

We don't normally have opening statements, so I'm assuming there is no opening statement. The minister made the statement, and we'll immediately go to questions on the estimates.

We will begin with Monsieur Ayoub.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I have a point of clarification, Chair, before we start.

How do you anticipate structuring the timing of the meeting today, given that the schedule has been disrupted?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I would like to give the officials an hour, if that's the committee's will, and push the next hour as far as we can until votes, so we can get the full meeting in. I'm proposing we go 55 minutes now with the officials, until 5 p.m., which would be normal, if they're available, and that's okay; I know it's a half-hour late.

Thanks.

Monsieur Ayoub.

[Ramez Ayoub, Thérèse-De Blainville, Lib.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I’d like to begin with the Canada-Quebec accord on immigration. I believe the federal government wasn't able to include Quebec’s immigration levels in the 2019-21 immigration levels plan because of the change in Quebec's government after the provincial election.

The department is seeking nearly $70 million for the Canada-Quebec immigration accord, less than last year. Is that due to the expected change in Quebec’s immigration levels?

[Daniel Mills, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

No. The amount sought in supplementary estimates (B) for the accord really reflects the increase under the accord. The accord has two components, the number of non-French-speaking immigrants, which varies from year to year, and the federal government’s expenditures, which also vary from year to year, giving rise to the increase in funding for the accord. The amount can only increase from one year to the next or remain stable. It can’t go down and has nothing to do with Quebec’s immigration levels.

[Ramez Ayoub]

That means, then, that regardless of the targets or changes to the targets, the amount will always be at least what is set out here and can go up. Do I understand that correctly?

[Daniel Mills]

Yes. With the $69.2-million increase, the amount set aside for the accord will be $559.4 million annually. Under the Canada-Quebec immigration accord, the amount can’t decrease.

[Ramez Ayoub]

For 2017-18, the voted appropriation was nearly $112 million. As I understand it, had there been more immigration, the increase would have been greater than $69 million. Is that right?

What is the difference between the $69 million being sought here and the $112 million in voted appropriations for the Canada-Quebec immigration accord?

[Daniel Mills]

The $112 million was the amount set aside last year, based on the difference between the number of non-French-speaking immigrants to Quebec the year before and that same number last year. That means Quebec experienced an increase in non-French-speaking immigrants between the two fiscal years and the federal government’s expenditure went up. We look at each year separately. This year, the $69 million represents the difference between 2017 and 2018.

[Ramez Ayoub]

I see.

Still in connection with the change in Quebec's government, we recently learned that Quebec had asked the federal government not to grant permanent residency to 16,900 individuals, who are at the last step of the integration process, in order to fulfill the province’s pledge to reduce the total number of immigrants to 40,000 per year.

How will that decision affect the department? Will it impact the budget?

[Marta Morgan, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

The Canadian and Quebec governments work very closely on immigration issues and immigration management.

We work very collaboratively with the Government of Quebec in all aspects of immigration, and it is a shared responsibility between the Government of Quebec and the federal government.

The principle underlying the Canada-Quebec immigration accord is that the two governments must work together to set immigration levels. Quebec is responsible for selecting its economic class immigrants and setting its level of economic immigration. We really work with the Quebec government, but it is up to the province to determine which immigrants come to Quebec and what level of economic immigration suits its needs.

[Ramez Ayoub]

How has that affected or how will it affect the department budget-wise? The fact remains that the matter has yet to be settled; nothing is final. A judge has even issued an injunction forcing the province to process the outstanding applications.

If Quebec’s request is granted and those applicants are not given permanent residence status, what impact will the unprocessed applications have on funding and the relationship with the department?

[Marta Morgan]

The funding implications are twofold.

The first has to do with what Mr. Mills was describing. Under the Canada-Quebec immigration accord, Quebec receives funding for immigrants and service delivery. The funding formula is based, not on the number of immigrants, but on broader federal funding trends.

The second relates to the processing of applications and the fact that the federal government has a multi-year immigration plan. If the Government of Quebec reduces its immigration levels, we try to increase the number of immigrants in other categories destined for the other provinces.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Very good.

[Marta Morgan]

There really isn’t any budget impact at this point.

[Ramez Ayoub]

There really isn’t any impact yet.

[Marta Morgan]

Not for the time being. It might be another story if the trend were to continue for a few years, but, for this year, there aren’t any budget implications.

[Ramez Ayoub]

If the accord between the two governments doesn’t change, there shouldn’t be any repercussions. If I understand correctly, a minimum amount always applies.

[Marta Morgan]

Exactly.

[Ramez Ayoub]

I see.

The arrival of legal and illegal refugees and immigrants in Quebec is an issue that frequently comes up. Quebec and Ontario have spent significant sums to deal with the issue. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been put towards meeting the needs—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm afraid I need to cut you off. Time flies.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Next time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm sorry.

[Ramez Ayoub]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Ms. Rempel.