Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 2nd, 2016

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you. I'll be splitting my time with Mr. Saroya.

A Syrian refugee spoke to us in Arabic at our committee meeting earlier this week and said:

...one of the main problems we are facing...is learning ESL, or English as a second language. ... Every time I go, they say there is no chance and to come back in two to three months. If I go after that, they still tell us the same thing.

He expressed great frustration with not being able to learn English. He also talked about housing and said:

We are a family of seven—five kids and the two of us, husband and wife—but we live in a two-bedroom apartment.... Apart from that, these smaller...units are...infested. There are bugs. From time to time we have to use bug spray....

We're also hearing about food bank usage. The minister even implied that this is a “cultural” issue. We've heard from school boards across the country that they're having challenges in integrating Syrian students who have had disruption in their education due to obvious circumstances.

The Mount Pleasant centre is going to be presenting in the second half of the committee today. They're saying they received notice on February 24 that their funding had been cut. They are a settlement services agency. At the same time, we're hearing from private sponsor groups that they have apartments ready that are sitting vacant and they're not able to match their families with the money they've raised in these sponsorship groups.

I'm just wondering, to all of the witness groups.... I appreciate Canada's willingness to help. I think we all want to help here. My issue as a parliamentarian right now is that in a year this situation is going to get a lot worse, I think, because I feel that the government is glossing over the fact that refugee settlement services agencies are facing a lot of strain in dealing with these situations. At the same time, the private sponsor groups are saying they're ready and willing to help, but there's this exceptionally siloed approach between government-sponsored refugees and privately sponsoring refugee groups, in that they're just not talking to each other.

Can you talk about what the impact will be on Syrian refugees who are in Canada right now if the government doesn't address some of these situations?

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Ms. Rempel, whom would you like to ask first?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'll ask Mr. Babikian if he'd like to start, and then we can go to the teleconference.

[Aris Babikian]

This is a very serious issue. We have to address this issue according to the two programs that we have right now, the government-sponsored one and the privately sponsored program. Most of the government-sponsored refugees who came have large families, and it is true that they are facing difficulties. The privately sponsored refugees are in a different situation because the family units are smaller and it's much easier to find apartments for them.

One year from now, when the government assistance stops, we are going to face problems, because some of these families, especially the government-sponsored ones, will not be able to afford the rent, and they will be on welfare.

There's also another issue. The confusion with regard to the SAHs is that on March 30 a circular from the department stated that all the SAHs should submit their applications by March 31. Suddenly the SAHs were caught off guard. Whatever applications they had, they had to submit them within 24 hours. They submitted the applications, but they still have other applications behind that. They need to submit those, but suddenly, after March 31, there was a freeze. There was no quota. There were no additional submissions. It took a month and a half, I believe, until the quotas started coming out, and now the quotas are very limited.

What has happened with the SAHs and the sponsor groups is that they have applications from the old system and now they have applications under the new SAHs, so where do they go? That's where the confusion is and where the frustration with regard to the private sponsors is happening, because they are sponsoring.... I have been meeting many church groups in Toronto, and school boards, etc., who are sponsors. They complain about the same thing: when will their refugees come? I mean, probably—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Mr. Babikian.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

If my colleague will allow me...?

Yes, we've talked very much about process in this study so far, but for the first time this week we had a refugee come to committee and really talk about what it means to not have availability of language training services. You talk about the clock ticking in terms of your arrivals and the pride of these refugees in not wanting to be on social assistance and wanting to have a job. What does it mean for refugees if the government can't address some of these issues in a short period of time?

Perhaps I'll go to our colleagues on the video conference.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Ms. Berman, go ahead.

[Sandy Berman]

There are a couple of things I wanted to add. We are very frustrated. We are ready to support, but we are also trying to be innovative. We have approached people who would donate apartments in the interim as a way of addressing the housing issue. All our refugees who are privately sponsored, even the family of six, are not going to get their housing needs met, because we cannot afford to support them in the apartments they need to be living in, which are three- or four-bedroom apartments. We recognize that they are going to have to make a compromise about where they live.

In terms of English language training access, I really support your concern. Getting access to English or French is of critical importance in getting employment. There are refugees, for example, who are working for Arabic-speaking construction companies here, but many people do not and cannot rely on Arabic-speaking people within an employment situation to help them through the process. Access to English and French is of critical importance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

I am sorry. The time is up.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

That's okay. Next time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Ms. Kwan, you have seven minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and thank you to all the witnesses for their presentations.

I am going to ask a series of questions.

First, I think all the presenters raised the issue of affordability of housing. The reality is that on income assistance, at that rate, whether you are privately sponsored or government-sponsored, you can't afford to get housing. I wonder whether you have any suggestions as to what needs to be done.

Aside from the housing side, on affordability, we have received information from government officials who tell us that in Toronto and Vancouver, for example, by the time a family of four get the rate they are allotted and spend that money on their housing, they are already in the red. That is to say, they have no money to actually support their families, no money for food and other needs. The pressure is even more significant on those refugee families who are faced with the transportation loan debt.

I wonder whether you have any specific suggestions as to what the government can do about this. For example, because income assistance is a provincial program, should the federal government convene a federal table with the provincial and territorial partners to address this issue of income assistance rates?

I will go to you first, Ms. Berman, and then I will come to you, Mr. Babikian.

[Sandy Berman]

We definitely support some kind of intervention. I am sure this issue is particular to Toronto and the Lower Mainland.

We have been lobbying the provincial government here, but not with a lot of success. Some initiative from the federal end would really help to allow for some discussion, and not just about the challenges that refugees are facing. I think there are larger implications for the community.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Babikian, go ahead.

[Aris Babikian]

Housing is a serious problem. We discussed it earlier.

I should mention that unfortunately some landlords in Toronto are gouging refugees. We had cases where the landlord asked the refugee to pay one year's advance rent. Even though this is against the law, they are asking. There are many cases like that.

I have two concrete recommendations.

First of all, encourage private corporations to donate more money. Recently we heard that three corporations donated $750,000 toward subsidized housing.

The second suggestion I would put on the table is to bring forward some kind of incentive or tax break for privately sponsored refugees to individuals and to the churches. That way, the Canadians who are sponsoring a refugee can get some kind of tax break. They can contribute more and participate more. More Canadians can become involved in this refugee sponsorship process or in supporting the refugees.

Right now all the sponsors, whatever they are doing, are putting in from their own pockets. They are doing it because they are truly heroes. They are Canadians, and according to tradition, they are doing it.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you for that.

Those are good suggestions, although I will note that the challenge, of course, is that private sponsoring, which is what the minister has said we will rely on up until this point, so far hasn't met the need. I don't know whether or not that really is a long-term solution.

With respect to landlords coming forward, that too poses a problem, because at the 13th month both the privately sponsored and the government-sponsored refugees are on income assistance and on their own. What happens to them after that? Those are important issues that we need to try to figure out as well.

I want to turn to this issue around the long wait for the private sponsors, and particularly those in the northern Iraq area. It's my understanding in speaking with you and others who have been working hard on this, Ms. Berman, that the government doesn't even have processing centres there in those communities. Hence, the processing of these 100 families who are waiting to come, with sponsors ready to receive them, is even further delayed and very much uncertain. Am I correct in that understanding?

[Sandy Berman]

All of the files have been sent to Amman, Jordan. There is a huge backlog, we've been told. While I'm sure these extra visa officers will help clear it up, at this point we have no indication exactly when these officers would go to northern Iraq. We're very concerned. We keep hearing from the refugees that they have had no contact from anybody. This is true not just for our families; it's been true for the other people we've been liaising with.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The suggestion was to have the IOM or the UNHCR, which already have people overseas, help process this. This has been suggested to the government, and I certainly have brought it to the government's attention and to the minister's attention, but so far no action has been taken. That opportunity is not really fully facilitated. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 20 seconds.

[Sandy Berman]

That's correct. In fact, the UNHCR has been interviewing people in some of the camps, but it's about resettlement elsewhere. They already have that responsibility for other countries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have five seconds—oh, sorry, my mistake: you have one minute and five seconds.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

One minute and five seconds? Oh, my God, I just hit the jackpot.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

With regard to that 13th month, Amer, the Syrian refugee who came and presented to us on Tuesday, indicated the challenge. He's still, after one year, not able to get into a language training program from the government. He's still waiting. I'm wondering about the extensiveness of that problem. If you can't get language, you can't get employment. That's happening in British Columbia, in Surrey more particularly, in the Lower Mainland. I'm wondering if it's happening in your neck of the woods.

Mr. Babikian, can you respond to that?

[Aris Babikian]

We are facing that language problem also in Toronto. It's a catch-22 situation, especially with the privately sponsored refugees. From the first day they arrive, the privately sponsored refugees want to start working in order to support their families. They don't want to be a burden on their sponsor or the SAHs. What happens sometimes, unfortunately, is that even though they have very poor English, they drop out of school to go and find a minimum labour job to support their families.

It is a catch-22. How do we stop it? There are solutions for it.