Evidence of meeting #23 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Bob Saroya Conservative Markham—Unionville, ON
If I hear you correctly, you're asking whether we can change the rules for the Afghani Sikhs so that they can be brought here, rather than go to Pakistan or India.
As an Individual
Yes. It's been done before, and I'd like to see it done with the Sikh community now; that they be able to come directly to Canada from Afghanistan.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thanks very much to all of the witnesses.
I want some clarification on the numbers. I'm not quite sure, if I'm hearing correctly, whether we know the actual numbers. The document that I have, called “Plight of Afghan Sikhs and Hindus in Afghanistan”, cites in the background approximately 395 families. I wonder whether that is still an accurate number, or do we not know the correct number at this point?
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
You're right that there are various estimates of how many families remain. These are some estimates that we have. Six who have come from Afghanistan recently are telling us that it's probably even fewer than 395 families. But you also have cases of individuals who have sent some of their family abroad while some continue to remain, so that families have been split.
What Tarjinder said is correct, that we don't even have an accurate number of how many are on the ground, and that's what we're looking for help on as well.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
When you talk about getting NGOs on the ground to do an assessment to see where things are at, are you looking to see a Canadian government-funded NGO operate on the ground there, so that people would be able to gather that information and then come back and make the determination of what the best steps are in going forward? That's one question.
Also, in the brief in terms of the recommendations, it seems that the source country classification is a big key here to unlocking some of these problems. Would you suggest that we wait for that work to be done, or would you say that in fact one of the recommendations that could be implemented at this time is to have the source country class option open?
I'll open that up to all of the witnesses, but I'll start with you Mr. Singh.
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
Very briefly, who does the study? It's not necessary that it be a government-funded study. I think the Sikh community would be able to put in resources to have it done. The fact is that we don't have the manpower on the ground and we don't know who can get it done. However, we believe that the Canadian embassy and other Canadian interests will know how that can be done.
With respect to the source country class, it was eliminated in 2011. We understand it had very serious problems, for example, the list of countries and a number of issues that were there. We think that it might be an option to open it up to private sponsorships. It needs to be looked at because right now there's no viable option for those individuals who are internally displaced.
As an Individual
I would reiterate what Mr. Balpreet Singh has said. When it comes to the actual funding for the study, our hope is that the government assists us in figuring out how we can do the study. If money is the issue in terms of our having to wait for the study, I am very confident in saying that funding will not be an issue. We will make that happen as long as we know how the government can assist us in making sure that this study is done in a safe and effective manner.
Jasdeep Mattoo Barrister and Solicitor, The Law Firm of Kang and Company, As an Individual
Just to tag on to that, I agree with Ms. Bhullar that the private funding is not going to be much of an issue. The Sikh community in Canada is obviously very well connected and that shouldn't be an issue.
To the second option, the source country class, I think that's a very viable option. It was an option that was part of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and regulations when they were brought in. It's something that could be relatively easily revived and slightly revamped to take into consideration current affairs and assist with extracting people who are internally displaced and may not fit a full convention refugee definition.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Would you see these as government-sponsored refugees under this class, or would you see the individuals as privately sponsored refugees under the source country class?
Barrister and Solicitor, The Law Firm of Kang and Company, As an Individual
Yes, I agree. I think it should be private sponsorship in this particular case.
As an Individual
Certainly, private sponsorship is what we're looking at, but an expedited way of being able to do that.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Would you suggest that work precede or happen simultaneously, as we try to figure out the work of gathering further information on the ground?
Is that correct, Ms. Bhullar?
As an Individual
Yes, I think that speaks to what I was saying in my statement. I fully respect the bureaucratic process, but certainly there's a way to expedite it and there's a way to make sure that it is efficient.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Thank you to all the witnesses for coming here today, and I want to send my condolences to the Bhullar family.
Mr. Singh, you mentioned about the Afghan Sikhs and the Hindus being unable to move freely and unable to own businesses, and there is much discrimination towards them. My question is, what is the status of the displaced Sikh communities when they cross the borders to Pakistan or India? Do they have any documentation with them or do they have anything from Afghanistan when they cross the borders?
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
It's a good question. With respect to their status as internally displaced, what they tend to do is they congregate and go to the last places of worship. With respect to their travelling outside, one of the biggest issues that this group of 200 had was in fact access to government identification, passports. Manmeet made it happen. He leveraged some contacts that he had. He was able to find someone who could speak English and make it happen for them, but it wasn't easy, and it's not possible for the vast majority of these people to have that done.
To your question about passports, most of them didn't have passports, but Manmeet got it done.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
When these families give birth to their children, is there any type of documentation? You mentioned that you needed NGOs on the ground to see how many of them there are. That's just adding to maybe your question. Is there any type of documentation?
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
It's hard to speak universally, but the fact is Sikhs in most parts of Afghanistan haven't gone to school for at least two generations, so their ability to understand and interact with the system is highly limited. I would suspect that most of them don't even have basic registration papers.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Do the Sikhs and Hindus who are stuck in Afghanistan have any ties to Canadians here, any relatives in western countries or even in Canada that you know of?
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
That's a good question as well. Some of them do have ties to relatives who may have managed to escape. Once again, those who could have done it have largely done it, and helped their relatives to do it as well.
In terms of ex-pat or refugee communities outside, there's a large contingent in places like Germany and the U.K., for example, but not so much in Canada. There are definitely still some Sikh refugees from Afghanistan who have made their way via Germany or other places.
