Evidence of meeting #23 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON
Basically, the ones who are stuck there are the ones who are very vulnerable and don't have any ties to try to get to another country for refuge.
This can be to all the witnesses. If Canada allowed private sponsorship of persons in refugee-like situations who remain in their country of nationality, do you expect that enough private sponsors would be available to resolve the Sikh and Hindu issues?
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
I don't see any issue in getting the private sponsorships done, particularly from the Sikh community, but I'll let the others comment.
As an Individual
Since Manmeet's passing, the urgency of this within the Sikh community has only become exponential. He had a running list of people who were willing to take on private sponsorship when he was personally working on this project, and that list continues to grow. There are people who reach out to my father, to friends and staff of Manmeet, saying, “Let us know how; let us know when; we are committed to doing this.”
Really, we're just waiting for the government to say ready, set, go, and you will have a comprehensive list of people who are willing to be private sponsors for the Afghans.
Barrister and Solicitor, The Law Firm of Kang and Company, As an Individual
Yes, the private sponsorship route is obviously the route that the community at large is prepared to go in very short order.
The question was fading out here a bit on our end, but from what I understand in terms of identities and these types of issues, it hearkens back to the times when I started my practice, and we were dealing with Eritrean and Ethiopian refugees who were being resettled here without what we would consider the normal type of passport documentation. But there are many ways to facilitate the identity beyond official government documentation. Again, that's one of the bureaucratic hurdles that can be easily overcome either by way of affidavit evidence or other evidence that's available and secured overseas.
I'm confident that a properly supported, federally supported refugee resettlement process will be met with great support by the Canadian community at large.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
Thank you.
You still have a minute and a half, or we can go to the next round.
Liberal
Liberal
Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON
I have three questions. I'll ask them all, because I don't want them to get cut off.
The first question is for Mr. Balpreet Singh. You mentioned the dangers for the next of kin in Afghanistan if certain Sikhs come out. This dovetails with some of the testimony we've already heard today. I wanted to ask if you can comment on how this can be resolved. Is it sort of an all-or-nothing phenomenon? To preserve the safety of the individuals there, do we need to get every family out, or can it be done piecemeal?
To Ms. Bhullar about the suggestion about NGOs assisting, do you think there's any potential risk of endangering the communities that are on the ground in Afghanistan in the process of collecting that information?
To Mr. Kang, could you talk a little bit about international law and whether you believe there's an need to entrench a definition of “internally displaced people” in international law so we can move the yardstick on this? And what kind of leadership role can Canada play in that?
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
All right. It's not all or nothing. It happened piecemeal, but it was very tricky to actually coordinate, especially given that Manmeet was one person. But he managed to do it. Could it happen again? I don't know.
As an Individual
Yes, there is some level of danger, but it has been done before. That's why we need the government's assistance in figuring out how best to do this so it's done safely and efficiently.
Barrister and Solicitor, The Law Firm of Kang and Company, As an Individual
Yes, Mr. Virani, there is definitely a requirement, in my view, for an entrenched definition of IDPs, or internally displaced persons. In that sense, as I indicated earlier, the responsibility to protect doctrine I think ought to be hybridized to some degree so that Canada and other entities can extract those in significant harm's way, for reasons that would allow them to meet the convention refugee test if they are outside the country.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be brief for once.
Tarjinder, I just wanted to say thank you for your family's work on this and put it on the record. I thank your brother for his support in encouraging me to get into office and to stand up for what's right.
This is an issue I think you'll get a lot of cross-partisan support for. Certainly this is something we supported more efforts on when we were in government. One of the outcomes I'd like to see from this committee meeting is some concrete recommendations around this particular issue.
Thank you for carrying the torch. I know it hasn't been easy, but on behalf of everyone here at the committee, thank you so much for the work Manmeet did and for the impact he had personally on so many of our lives, more than probably you'll know. I hope that's a gift you continue to get, these stories of the work he did.
Thank you. That's all.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
I have a question for Mr. Singh Kang.
Mr. Virani was a bit rushed there, and I think the question he asked is quite important. In fact, I think it's a recurring theme here, or it's about to become a recurring theme.
We have already touched on the issue of IDPs and how the international legal order is not equipped to deal with that very serious problem. Again, 40-plus million human beings are internally displaced. I wonder if you could expand on that, with reference to just about anything you want to raise.
I would also say that there are conventions in place on stateless peoples, but according to those who have analyzed those conventions, they are not powerful enough, there are no teeth there, to provide members of the international community, such as Canada, with the means to go ahead and assist IDPs. I wonder if you could comment on that.
Barrister and Solicitor, The Law Firm of Kang and Company, As an Individual
The whole aspect of what constitutes internally displaced peoples, or internally displaced persons, is important because one can look at it individually or collectively. When one looks at the Yazidi example, it's a collective thing where there's no individualized persecution per se that has to be there.
I agree that the conventions as presently framed are outdated and almost stale in the sense that the nature of conflict—and we're all aware of what's happening, through the media and others—has evolved and unfortunately changed to a point where we can't see a foreseeable time when it's going to be diminished. You're right that there are tens of millions of people who are internally displaced, but the magnitude of the problem shouldn't detract from our energy in terms of addressing these issues. When one looks at the Yazidis, and one looks at the Afghani Sikhs, they're clear examples of what happens when we come late to the table with proposed solutions.
I think Canada has to be proactive. Hearkening back to what I indicated happened in 2005, it's a little over 10 years ago, but it was our Prime Minister and our government that advocated strenuously for the responsibility to protect. There hasn't been a consistency in terms of that advocacy, and I'm not just singling out Canada, but around the world. Collectively, nations that are forward-looking can advance these types of causes. I think internally displaced persons are worthy of protection, and it should not be this legal fiction that they have to cross borders and cross boundaries, and then, and only then, does it become our problem to address. The European migration situation is a prime example. If we cannot go and secure protection for individuals above and beyond refugee camps that are temporary in their home countries, then people will seek refuge. I think it is a moral obligation on Canada's part to address the inadequacies of international covenants and conventions, and move expeditiously.
Liberal
Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London North Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
Just to clarify, when I mentioned the conventions on stateless peoples, obviously that doesn't go far enough, because when we talk about IDPs, some are stateless, but a good number are not. A good number have citizenship, but basically fit the definition of a refugee, except for the fact that they're in their country of origin. Thank you very much for pointing out that we're in need of some action on the international legal front.
Mr. Singh, I'm not familiar with the history, but I was taken by the comment that was raised—I'm not sure if you brought it up or if was Mr. Singh Kang's testimony—that prior to the U.S.S.R. invasion, the Sikh and Hindu populations in Afghanistan were vibrant and well integrated. How did things turn out like this? What's the trajectory here? Did it happen after the Soviet invasion? Was it the Taliban that was particularly responsible for the discrimination we see? Where did things go wrong? My sense is, hearing the testimony, that relations between the Muslim majority and Sikhs and Hindus was relatively harmonious until a particular point. I'm wondering when that was.
Legal Counsel, World Sikh Organization of Canada
After the pro-Soviet government fell, and there were various extremist elements and different insurgent groups, pressure increased on the Sikh community there. It increased on all communities there, but there's been a rise in religious intolerances. Whereas Sikhs and Hindus were seen as tolerated people and protected people, that has fallen to the wayside, and you have this increasing victimization. Under the Taliban, the Afghan Sikhs have told us that they had to wear these badges, they had to have flags on their houses, and they had these arcane rules they had to follow. They still claim that if they paid the jeziah, and they followed the rules, then they were still protected to some extent. After the Taliban fell, and you had the Karzai government, you had a short honeymoon period, but things after that have deteriorated to the point where they can't live there anymore. They say the government's unable to protect them. They're being extorted for money all the time. Things have gotten worse.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj
Thank you.
I'd like to thank all of the panellists for their testimonies and for their insights, and I'd in particular like to thank Ms. Bhullar, your family, and your late brother for all of the work your family has done, and continues to do, on behalf of the at-risk Sikh minority in Afghanistan.
Thank you. The meeting is adjourned.