Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and a motion adopted by the committee on October 27, 2016, the committee will now resume its study on resettling Yazidi girls and women.

We have before us, by video conference from Stuttgart, Germany, Michael Blume, the head of the special quota project. I apologize for the slight delay to this portion of our hearing. Unfortunately, we had some committee business to attend to.

Mr. Blume, we will automatically go to questions. You have already presented to us previously.

We will go to Mr. Ehsassi, who is splitting his time with Mr. Tabbara.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Hello, Mr. Blume, and welcome back.

Allow me to begin by thanking you for your testimony last week. Obviously, the special quota project was an incredibly heroic effort. Thank you very much for that, and thank you for kindly making yourself available once again.

We heard during the course of that testimony that the Yazidi community has been going through a traumatic experience. The way it was put was that they have gone through transgenerational trauma. They've gone through collective trauma, and often have gone through individual trauma.

That said, the one thing that did catch my eye when I was reviewing the transcript was that as far as I understand it, the German model is to focus on individuals who have suffered through terrible atrocities.

Could you explain to us the merits of focusing on individuals rather than having individuals and their immediate family come to Germany, or in this case to Canada? Could you elaborate on the decision that was made under the special quota project, and why?

[Dr. Michael Blume, Head, Special Quota Project, State Ministry of Baden-Württemberg]

The situation in Germany was that a lot of refugees managed to come to central Europe, but most of them, who managed to cross several countries and seas and the like, were male, or they were families who could afford to pay for traffickers. If you think about the situation for women and children, who had lost their male relatives—their fathers or husbands—and had lost nearly everything, you can see that those emergency cases didn't have any chance to reach central Europe.

At that time, the political decision was to focus on these people who wouldn't make it on their own. We knew from people who had escaped from Daesh, and we knew even from Daesh propaganda, that Daesh killed many of the men and killed boys over the age of 13 and enslaved the women and children.

We knew there were a lot of women with small children literally left by themselves, and even if there were relatives, in some cases they had to take care of many other refugees in the family, so they were in a very desperate situation.

That was the reason we spoke to the Kurdish regional government to say we'd not take everyone but would focus on these very traumatized emergency cases who did not have any way to get psychological treatment. That was the reason we went after these emergencies.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you for that.

If I could follow up, you did, in the course of your testimony, refer to a contract that you signed with the Kurdish regional government.

Generally speaking, whether it was with the Iraqi government or the Kurdish regional government, what are the types of principles you refer to in that contract that we should be aware of?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

We signed a letter of intent between our state and the autonomous region in Kurdistan. The reason was that we agreed that we would take care of 1,000 cases. It would become 1,100, because two other states joined the effort.

The other thing was that we wanted to built a sustainable partnership. Even now we are active in the region. We are building infrastructure. We are building a centre for training psychologists. For both sides, it was important to say that we are now helping in this situation in these emergency cases, but that we wouldn't stop there. We want to build a partnership that goes into the future.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much. Those are my questions. I believe it's the turn of my colleague Mr. Tabbara.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have two and a half minutes, Mr. Tabbara.

[Marwan Tabbara, Liberal, Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you for your testimony last week. It's really helpful in our study.

At the time of resettlement, were there any safety concerns? I know we briefly touched on that, but I wanted you to elaborate a little more. I remember your telling us that you had to go day by day to understand the situation and the security levels.

[Dr. Michael Blume]

Yes. Of course there is a war, and at the start of the mission sometimes we were five to 10 kilometres from Daesh. We had to take care that we wouldn't be attacked and that they wouldn't try to get a ransom if they got hold of some of our team.

On the other side, the Kurdish people in northern Iraq are very against Daesh. For example, in the region of Dohuk, Daesh didn't manage to strike with suicide bombers or the like because the people there don't like Daesh. It's not only about religion; it's also about Arab and Kurdish differences.

For example, in Erbil or in other regions, some attacks were done by Daesh. We had to be very careful, and we kept in close contact with our Kurdish allies. Of course, we have the German army and the American military there too.

In the end I'm glad to say that we didn't need to use any weapons, because we managed to fly under the radar and follow a certain security protocol.

In the meantime, on one side the security situation improved. Daesh is not as strong as it used to be, but then certainly I've heard about the freeing of Mosul, and one doesn't know how Daesh will react to that.

At the moment it's rather safe, but it would be good to think about security when travelling there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Mr. Tilson, you have seven minutes, please.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you.

You indicated the special project has been under budget.

[Dr. Michael Blume]

Yes.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Can you tell us what percentage it has been under budget, and why?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

We are about 20% to 25% under budget. For example, we didn't use commercial flights; we changed to charter flights, and it ended up being far less expensive than we had thought.

Here in Germany, in Baden-Württemberg, the women and children we took in are demanding far less therapy than we expected. For many of them it's far more important to have a normal life, to cook, to go to school. Only a few of them are ready to go into therapy.

Speaking overall, we had a budget, but up to now it seems it's not as expensive as some assumed.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

In Canada we have homes for women and children who have sustained domestic abuse, and the newspapers have said that these women and children are in safe houses similar to these women. I suppose you have the same thing in Germany—

[Dr. Michael Blume]

Yes.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Women and children who have sustained domestic abuse are put in homes. Can you tell us a little about that, and what these homes are like? Following on Mr. Tabbara's question about security, what sort of security is there with these safe houses? Are they the same as the other houses you have in Germany?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

Yes, exactly. We call them Frauenhäuser in Germany. At the start, they were like the benchmark. We tried to reach out to the women and their situation, and also because we knew some of the women might testify against Daesh, so it was important that they would not only be secure but that they could feel secure. They would know that nobody could find them or anything.

We have shelters in 21 cities. We have some very small groups with, for example, eight people, and we have bigger ones with up to 100 people. In the end, every city is providing a shelter and a concept. We are even able to compare what's working best, what's working not so positively, and we are doing network meetings so we can share the experiences.

Just to give an example, with the very small shelters at the start, it's harder for people to adapt to the new environment, but with the very big shelters, there is a danger that a perilous society is forming. That's why we are trying to learn what's working and what's not working.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Ms. Rempel has a question.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There were some media reports this week that the Kurdish government was expressing some displeasure with the Canadian government looking at this particular course of action. I know you stressed how important it was to collaborate with the Kurdish government on this issue.

I guess I have two questions. First of all, do you have any advice for our government on how to approach that relationship? Certainly it would be Canada's intent to ensure that the relationship is strong and solid.

Second, part of the resistance is through an acknowledgement that the Yazidi population, which is indigenous to the area, is so small and so greatly reduced, and there's a concern about the cultural genocide occurring in the region. Can you speak to the establishment of safe zones in the region? I know your Chancellor has called for this. Do you think it's something Canada should also be pursuing as part of its overall aid in the region?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

We see the Kurdistan Regional Government not only as friends, but also as allies. They are fighting on the ground against Daesh. I think it's important that we support them and that we are helpful for them.

Even as we started our program, it was important for us that they wouldn't lose face by seeming to show the world that they couldn't take care of their own people, so we said we would keep it on a very diplomatic, secure, and safe level. We are just concentrating on the emergency cases. That was really helpful because, again, they are among the good people in the region. They are trying to build a democracy. Of course, there are fundamentalists in Kurdistan, too, but most of the people want a society that is diverse, democratic, and pro-western.

I would say the right way to approach the Kurdistan Regional Government would be a supportive one where they feel they are allies and are partners and that we wouldn't leave them just for a short show and then follow another course.

Then, of course, in Kurdistan there is this debate about what will happen in the future. A lot of the Kurds want to have independence from Iraq, which could lead to a struggle, but we hope that this course might be a peaceful one.

Then there is the question about which region the disputed areas will belong to. Will they belong to Iraq? Will they belong to Kurdistan? Then there is the issue of minorities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 20 seconds, please.

[Dr. Michael Blume]

I think it's important, again, to be supportive of all the parties involved. It would not be good to go there and say we don't like this group, and we will support only this group. This could make things worse, so I would go very diplomatically there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Ms. Kwan, you have seven minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much for your testimony and for agreeing to come back to our committee.

If you don't have this date readily, can you send it to us at a later time? When did the Canadian government first contact you to seek your knowledge and advice with respect to this project?