Evidence of meeting #48 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Marta Morgan  Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Daniel Mills  Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Robert Orr  Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Paul Armstrong  Director General, Centralized Network, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Welcome back.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on February 25, the committee will resume its study on family reunification.

Once again I welcome to the committee the deputy minister, Ms. Marta Morgan; the assistant deputy minister of operations, Mr. Robert Orr; the assistant deputy minister and chief financial officer, Mr. Daniel Mills; and the director general, centralized network, Mr. Paul Armstrong.

Ms. Morgan, I believe you have a five-minute opening statement.

February 8th, 2017 / 4:35 p.m.

Marta Morgan Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's a pleasure to be speaking before committee members again today.

We are committed to assisting the committee and its work on family reunification. I will make a few short remarks on the topic, following which my colleagues and I will be very pleased to answer any follow-up questions that committee members have on the information we have provided to you.

Although the majority of newcomer admissions to the country go through economic immigration programs, the goal of reuniting families has long been an important part of the history of Canada's immigration system and remains one of its fundamental aspects. Family reunification is a top priority for Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada.

Many of the follow-up questions that committee members have had throughout your study on family reunification have been focused on processing times and wait times. I would like to discuss the elements that allow us to address these issues: level space, funding, and efficiency.

As you know, Mr. Chair, we have announced that we are expecting some 84,000 admissions under the family class.

That includes about 64,000 spouses, partners, and children, and 20,000 parents and grandparents.

That represents an increase of about 5% in family class admissions from the previous year's levels plan.

During these hearings, the committee has heard people express their concerns about lengthy processing times. One of the reasons we are increasing admissions of sponsored family members is to help reduce inventories and processing times that keep families separated for extended periods of time.

Because we are admitting more family class applicants, we expect fewer delays related to level space, which will allow for faster processing times for family sponsorships.

We announced in December that we were cutting processing times for spousal sponsorships from an average of 18-26 months to 12 months, which will help to notably reduce the backlog of these cases.

In other words, most families awaiting a decision about their sponsorship application to plan their future together will receive a response no later than the end of December 2017.

More than 64,000 applicants will benefit from these changes in the first year alone. In the case of the parent and grandparent program, we have increased the number of entry applications that will be accepted annually. For this program, we have tried to strike the difficult balance between accepting new applications and working to reduce the backlog.

We put a cap on new applications to control growth in the backlog, but beginning last year, the number of applications accepted for intake is 10,000, doubling the previous cap of 5,000 applications, and because our admissions exceed the intake of new applicants, we are able to continue reducing the backlog of inventory in this program.

Mr. Chair, in terms of funding, we are also using the $25 million allocated in the 2016 budget by working to reduce processing times in the family class.

We are also working to improve the efficiency with which IRCC treats applications. We're doing so in part by learning from the experience of processing temporary resident applications, which includes those who wish to come to Canada as workers, students, and visitors.

We processed more than two million temporary resident applications and extensions in 2015, an almost 4% increase in one year and a 19% increase over three years. This was accomplished via a combination of innovative measures and some permanent innovative funding.

If we can transfer the lessons learned from our management of the significant increases in the volume of temporary residence applications and the expedited processing of family reunification claims, we will make steady progress in this regard.

Mr. Chair, my department is also working on other initiatives that will help unite families more quickly. For example, we will be providing more opportunities for applicants who have Canadian siblings by giving additional points under the express entry system, and we are raising the maximum age for dependent children from 19 to 22.

In support of the committee's questions on these issues, we've provided follow-up responses when the committee has requested them. I'm happy to have the opportunity to clarify any of these responses today, should committee members wish to ask about them.

IRCC appreciates the important work the committee carries out and its valuable contributions. We are committed to seeking better communications with the committee through appropriate channels as we move forward.

In closing, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before this committee once again. I would be pleased to respond to any of your further questions today.

Thank you very much.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you, Ms. Morgan.

Mr. Ehsassi, you have seven minutes, please.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I would like to thank the senior officials from CIC for appearing before this committee once again. Obviously, throughout the course of last year, when undertaking work, we have relied extensively on the assistance, input, and guidance that officials have provided to us.

As you know, our most recent study is focused on the issue of family reunification. Family reunification, I can tell you, is an issue that pulls on all our heartstrings. We have seen how lengthy the wait times and the processing times have been in the past. I appreciate full well that the department is keen on ensuring that those wait times are shortened.

I know that the previous minister was very keen on that. I know that the current minister is also seized with this issue and would like to see improvements to the system. Members of our committee, likewise, are preparing a study that we hope will assist in improving the family reunification process.

As we were preparing our study, it came to light that some of the information we had asked you to provide was not provided to us in the comprehensive, accurate, or timely fashion that would have allowed us to conclude our study in the time frame we had agreed to. That obviously can be very frustrating to members of this committee. It has been distracting to the committee, but I'm sure it has been distracting to your officials as well.

Given our concerns about that, I was wondering if one of the officials could kindly provide us with some background information as to what systems are in place to make sure that when parliamentary committees do ask for information, they will receive that information.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Mr. Ehsassi, according to what the committee decided, this one-hour session will be dealing with the substance of undertakings and not the process. If you could, please get to the substance of the undertakings that you would like some additional information on.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Absolutely.

One of the issues.... Obviously this committee has asked the officials numerous questions, and we are grateful for the information that has been provided. Some of it, I presume, proved very time-consuming for your officials. That said, I was wondering if you could assist us in understanding how the department undertakes modelling exercises when it comes to questions that are put to you by the committee.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Mr. Ehsassi, once again, we have dedicated this particular hour with the department officials to getting further information on the substance of the undertakings themselves. If you have questions specific to the actual undertakings, the topics of the substance, I'm sure the department officials would be happy to answer those.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON

Okay.

I actually don't have a list of the specific undertakings. I thought it was more procedural. I will not ask any questions. I will let another member go.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

We'll move on to Mr. Tilson.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have two questions, and then Mr. Saroya will have some questions.

The common thread throughout—these are the transcripts of our hearings, and you see I have nice little tabs attached to them—is that almost all of the witnesses said, with respect to levels, that we're not dealing with parents and grandparents. We're not letting enough in. They said we should increase it to 10,000, 20,000, 30,000, or 50,000. They said to raise the cap.

I'm going to read only one, because I'm sure the chairman won't let me read any more. Ms. Zena Al Hamdan said:

Of the 310,000, only 10,000 being dedicated to parents and grandparents is really not sufficient for the numbers of, specifically, skilled workers who are admitted to Canada. If you count that each one of them will be bringing.... The cap should be at least doubled, because a lot of them will need to go back to the labour market with the help of their parents, to assist with the family unit.

Someone else said that the amount should be 30,000. Throughout the transcripts, as I said, it was 10,000, 20,000, lift the cap. That was the information we sought.

Mr. Orr did respond somewhat, and I have two responses. I don't know what the dates are that I received them. I'll just read the first paragraph:

With regards to the numbers of incremental resources it would take to process an additional 10,000 cases, the Department is estimating that 28 additional employees, based both overseas and in Canada, will be required. This will also result in additional travel and non-salary costs estimated at $9,250,000.

The question is, what are the salary costs? What are the total costs?

I'm leaving things out because we're obviously pressed for time.

There was another response, as follows:

In order to reduce the current inventory of parents and grandparents applications, it's estimated an additional 10,000 admissions over the course of a year would significantly reduce the processing inventory, which stands at over 40,000 persons. Doing so would allow for an inventory of approximately 17,000 to 20,000 persons, or one year's work of intake.

At the end, the figure of $43,600,000 was given, but that's just part of the cost.

For us to adequately prepare a report, Ms. Morgan, Mr. Orr, or whoever feels up to it, the purpose of the question was that I don't want to hear partial costs. I want to know the total cost.

You've explained in the past that it may be difficult, and I understand that. In particular, estimating the cost of lifting the cap may be really difficult, but surely to goodness you can give us an estimate as to what the costs were for these different levels so that we can properly comment in our report in response to these people who have asked for the different levels to be increased.

4:50 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Marta Morgan

Mr. Chair, I'll just make a quick comment and then I'll turn it over to Daniel Mills, our chief financial officer, to answer the financial question.

Current levels for this year for parents and grandparents are now 20,000. I'd just like to note to the committee that over the last five years, considerable progress has been made in reducing the backlog, which was 167,000 as of 2011, and is now, as of December 2015, down to 50,000.

With that, by way of introduction, we do have the total cost for increasing levels by 10,000 in our package that was sent back to the committee, and I will let Daniel Mills explain that.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Can you give it to us for 30,000? That was the specific question that was asked—10,000, 20,000, 30,000. I realize that lifting the cap may be very difficult, but even those figures would give us....

I don't want partial costs, but total costs.

4:50 p.m.

Daniel Mills Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

When a department does cost modelling, it must consider several factors to determine the total cost of the initiative.

As the deputy minister mentioned, we have to check whether it is within or outside the immigration reference levels that have been approved by Parliament. Consideration should also be given to the average number of persons who are categorized and the fact that some persons fall into several classes. We also need to determine whether the processing will take place in Canada—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Mr. Mills, did you do that? Did you look at those things?

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

Yes, we've done those analyses. We have this information in the case of 10,000, 20,000 and 30,000 additional applications in the family class.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I'm still waiting for a total cost. I understand the problems, but you must be able to give us an approximate cost.

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

For 10,000 additional admission applications for parents and grandparents, the total cost is about $45 million, which includes the costs of the Department of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, as well as of our partners.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Do we just multiply it by 10 or five or...?

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

No. As I was about to say, with cost modelling, we also have to consider the department's capacity. In the processing of 20,000 or 30,000 additional applications, we need to consider the infrastructure and training of new employees. Given that the increase is considerable, we have to train employees, and so on.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Did you do that?

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

Yes, we have those figures.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

What does 30,000 cost?

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Finance, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Daniel Mills

The cost of processing 30,000 additional applications varies between $150 and $160 million.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Okay.

I have one more. How much time do I have?

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

You have 10 seconds.