Evidence of meeting #55 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultants.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
It would be good if we could get further information from you about this particular consultant so we could take a look at the situation.
My first question for everybody on the panel is this: Are most of the consultants you're hearing about from your clients who are dealing with these situations non-licensed consultants?
4 p.m.
Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants
Most of the clients we're aware of are working with licensed consultants and there is not a problem with many of them, but we are aware there are problems with some licensed consultants, and some are certainly unlicensed.
4 p.m.
Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
In my clients' experience, we have both authorized and unauthorized. They are being manipulated and exploited in both groups.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Would it help if the government set up a system whereby people brought forward complaints about a consultant and if they did, whether it's a licensed or a non-licensed consultant, their application would not be penalized? That is to say, the application would still proceed and be processed accordingly and then the onus would be on the consultant who would face a penalty if there were misinformation or problems associated with it.
Would that be an approach that would encourage people to come forward to say there are problems with a particular consultant?
4 p.m.
Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
We've been telling them that they don't need to be scared, but if there is no mechanism in place to protect them then it will be hard for us to convince them to do so.
The caregiver who was recently victimized by this agent said at the end of the day she didn't have a job; she didn't have a work permit; now she can't work, and she needs pay. She said her family in the Philippines is blaming her for the 200,000 pesos she paid to this consultant, so she said her priority was to find an employer.
We've been working with FCJ Refugee Centre because they have the expertise to do this and they've met with some of the workers and this time hopefully we can pursue a case against the consultant.
4 p.m.
Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants
I think it would be very helpful on two levels. One, it would create accountability on the side of the immigration consultants. Two, if there was a way to communicate it so that applicants felt they were going to be proceeding as planned and there were no repercussions, that would be helpful.
4 p.m.
Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
I would just say quickly that this agent we were talking about, we Googled her name. She has a pending case or she lost her case before. We were all shocked to learn this. How could she still do this?
4 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Let me ask this question on ghost consultants. It's sort of hard to find them. Should we set up a system whereby if you're not on the registered list as a registered licensed consultant, you're not actually allowed to practise? If someone somehow unknowingly hires someone who's a ghost consultant and is not licensed, they submit an application, and the application will continue to be processed, but that ghost consultant would not be able to continue to practise.
Would that be a process that you think would address some of these issues and, therefore, force those people to go through the licensed process?
4:05 p.m.
Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
Yes, then after a few months they will open another office.
4:05 p.m.
Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
Yes, they would keep changing names.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Okay, but if they're the same person, there's a way to track it in the system.
4:05 p.m.
Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
Yes, then they'll put their wives, their spouses, or other family members.
4:05 p.m.
Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants
I think it may deter some if there are more and more mechanisms by which people can be identified.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
I am going to go to this quick question. We've heard some issues with respect to ICCRC, which is the regulatory body. Should consultants be self-regulated?
Ms. Emory.
4:05 p.m.
Board Director, Ontario Council of Agencies Serving Immigrants
Absolutely not. I think that's the big problem. They need to be accountable to a body.
4:05 p.m.
Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
Yes, I think I agree with her.
When our clients go to the immigration consultant, sometimes it's just a simple application or work permit extension. It's very important because if that is not renewed properly, then they will lose their status. If they only knew that they could go to a settlement agency or settlement worker, that would not create more problems. The fact is that they don't know. When I go to the church, I say that our services are free. They look at me and say, “Are you sure they're free?” I think the important piece, as I mentioned, is about providing that information back to the orientation training overseas: okay, you need to go to your settlement agency when you arrive in Canada, and you need to see these people. It's a lack of awareness on their part.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Let me ask a quick question; I only have 40 seconds left.
I've heard from people with cases where they have a consultant and they've received information from IRCC, but they cannot get the information unless they pay additional money to the consultant—the person who's hired to do the job won't share the information once they get it from IRCC.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Would it make sense, to try to address that, that there be a regulated fee structure that should apply—for this service, here's how much you can charge—almost like legal aid lawyers?
4:05 p.m.
Settlement Worker, Thorncliffe Neighbourhood Office of Toronto
Yes, but in reality, it won't happen. They would still ask them to pay more because of the precariousness of their situation. If they know that they are in trouble, then they know that they will say, “okay, whatever, we can pay you whatever” just to make their applications.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
April 3rd, 2017 / 4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Randeep Sarai Liberal Surrey Centre, BC
Thank you to all three of you for coming, and especially to you, Ms. Dulanas, for sharing your experience.
I get very troubled looking at this whole file; it seems to go in circles. The challenge we have is that the ICCRC only governs its members, and nobody seems to really complain about members. The real dirty work is done by ghost consultants. Ghost consultants aren't under the ICCRC jurisdiction. CBSA is supposed to have jurisdiction, but I don't see it ever enforcing it.
Do you think—and I'm not normally a big advocate of it, and maybe all three of you can give answers—that if it became a criminal offence for people to prey upon people like Ms. Dulanas, that if they faced punitive damages or penalties such as, perhaps, jail time, there might be a precedent then where people would hesitate to do such fraudulent activity? Do you think that is the answer, or is it just due to a lack of enforcement because CBSA doesn't have enough resources?
I'll start with you, Ms. Emory.
