Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 20th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We have quorum, and I call to order meeting number two of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration for committee business. We don't have a gavel today, so I will just be speaking.

I request that all individuals present in this room please follow the public health advice to wear a mask and follow physical distancing. If you are sitting in your chair, you can take it off, but if you go out or walk around, please wear a mask. We all have to follow this protocol.

This is a hybrid meeting. Some members are present here in the parliamentary precinct and other members are appearing remotely.

I want to remind all members to please speak at a pace slow enough for the interpreters to keep up. At the last meeting, we had problems with interpretation, so in order to give the interpreters the time they need to translate, do not speak over one another.

The clerk is attending virtually and is tracking raised hands and keeping a list.

Pursuant to the order adopted by the House on September 23, all questions shall be decided by a recorded vote, except for those decided unanimously or on division. All votes will be recorded.

The meeting is being broadcast and is available on ParlVU.

With regard to the calendar, the clerk has just distributed a calendar with possible meetings. The meeting schedule is determined by the whips of all the parties, so based on the present situation, we will have meeting number three on October 27.

As of the week of November 2, there can be two meetings or one meeting per week. That will be based on what the whips agree on, so after today's meeting, there can be 10 meetings if we have two meetings after next week, or we could have six meetings. Based on that, we will develop our calendar.

In addition to that, I just want to let everyone know that if we decide on a study to be undertaken, for everyone's information, the distribution of witnesses is based on the proportion of committee members, so that will be based on the seats we have: 50% Liberal, 30% Conservative, 10% Bloc and 10% NDP.

If the committee agrees to commence a study, then let us please make sure that all the parties submit their witness lists to the clerk, including witnesses' contact information and the order of priority, not later than 4 p.m. on Monday, October 26, providing that the clerk contacts Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada to send officials to appear on Tuesday, October 27, if we start the meetings.

All witnesses we decide on will appear remotely. No witnesses can be here in person.

I also want to remind members that Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada has offered to appear remotely and to provide the committee with a briefing session on the department's mandate and activities. It is up to the will of all members if they want to have a complete meeting for that. The other option, if everyone agrees, is to have an informal meeting, which can be arranged based on everyone's availability. It will be up to members to make a decision.

Going back now to where we left off at the time of adjournment of the last meeting, the committee was debating the motion of Ms. Dancho to study the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the immigration system, and the amendment of Mr. Dhaliwal to amend the motion in paragraph 1. The text of the motion and the amendment were published in the minutes of meeting number one.

These are some of the things I wanted to remind members of. Now I will open the floor for the meeting today.

Go ahead, Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I see that the Conservative Party motion is on the floor and my amendment is on the floor, so I would like to move to withdraw my amendment to the CPC motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

I would need unanimous consent. Do I have unanimous consent regarding Mr. Dhaliwal's proposal to withdraw his amendment?

There are no objections. Okay.

(Amendment withdrawn)

Thank you. The amendment by Mr. Dhaliwal is withdrawn.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you wanted to say something?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Yes. Are we now going to back to the original motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Yes, thank you, we are back on the motion that was proposed by Ms. Dancho.

We will go to Ms. Martinez Ferrada.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I know the committee will have other discussions that will strike a chord with all members, so I move that debate on the Conservatives' motion be adjourned.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. Martinez Ferrada has proposed to adjourn the debate.

Clerk, do we have to go to a recorded vote?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Leif-Erik Aune]

We need to have a recorded vote unless the motion to adjourn the debate is agreed to unanimously or on division.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Do we have unanimous consent to adjourn debate on Ms. Dancho's motion?

(Motion agreed to)

We have unanimous consent to adjourn the debate on Ms. Dancho's motion, so the debate on that motion is adjourned.

Ms. Kwan is next.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'd like to move the motion that is in my name. Notice has been given to committee members. It is:

That the Committee invite the Minister of Immigration, Refugee and Citizenship and department officials for 2 hours to provide a briefing to committee members on the impact of the pandemic on Immigration, Refugee and Citizenship staffing levels and the ability to process all immigration and refugee streams locally and abroad.

Madam Chair, this motion calls for the officials and the minister to come before committee for a total of two hours, so that would mean one hour for the minister and one hour for the officials.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

Ms. Kwan has proposed her motion.

Go ahead, Mr. Regan.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Madam Chair, I just want to say that my experience has been generally that we see ministers at committees about twice a year. However, the government does know how important it is for ministers to be accountable and to discuss the files that are before them. Of course, the government has made a number of changes to make sure Canadians are safe during this period, but also it's important for us to hear about these issues as they relate to immigration, so I intend to support this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Ms. Dancho is next.

[Raquel Dancho, Conservative, Kildonan—St. Paul, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I agree with MP Regan. Jenny Kwan's motion is excellent.

Given the pandemic and this once-in-a-century health and economic crisis, I think it's very important that we have the minister of immigration come to committee as soon as possible to give the immigration committee an update on the state of immigration, the many streams and, as the member has outlined in her motion, the ability to process all immigration and refugee streams locally and abroad.

I very much support Ms. Kwan's motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

Mr. Serré is next.

[Marc Serré, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to be sure I understand the motion before we adopt it. The minister was here in July, and we're considering inviting him back. Do we want to invite the minister again when we examine the estimates? Is that redundant? Is the idea to invite as many witnesses as possible?

I'd like some clarification on the motion in that regard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Go ahead, Ms. Normandin.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I'd like to address the member's comments.

My understanding is that this appearance by the minister would focus on what went on during the pandemic. How did the department handle the situation? What obstacles did it encounter? How many employees went into work and how many opted to work from home? What equipment was provided to them? Those are all questions specific to the pandemic.

The estimates study is another component, although the two aren't mutually exclusive. That's how I understood it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Go ahead, Mr. Dhaliwal.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I have had the opportunity to deal with many ministers over many years, particularly when it comes to immigration. This ministry is very key in many ridings, including in the Lower Mainland, where Jenny Kwan and I come from. I'm sure that's true in other parts of the country as well.

The minister is very enthusiastic about this and is always willing to have a conversation with members. This is a good motion. I'm sure the minister would be very happy to appear. I would support this motion as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

Ms. Martinez Ferrada is next.

[Soraya Martinez Ferrada, Liberal, Hochelaga, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

As Ms. Normandin pointed out, the pandemic created a unique set of circumstances that required the department to take specific steps in order to process immigration cases. That wasn't easy given the situation.

I think it's worthwhile to hear what Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada did to advance immigration cases in light of the pandemic, so I fully support inviting the minister, his staff and department officials to discuss the issues and the way things were handled in the face of the pandemic.

I will say it's unusual for the minister to appear so many times before the committee, so I would like it on record that the minister will be appearing a number of times. He appeared before the committee in the summer. I want to be sure that we give our full attention to the appropriate witnesses and studies and that everyone realizes we need to hear what the witnesses have to say in order to make progress on immigration issues.

I, too, support the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you.

We have Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I want to thank all the committee members who spoke in support of this motion.

As outlined, because we're in unprecedented times with the pandemic, I think it is really important to have the minister and officials come here to tell us what is going on with IRCC. While they have taken some measures with some of the programming, there are still a lot of gaps in terms of problems that are existing, so it would be really good for committee members to understand the situation. Then we can determine how best to go forward in providing studies that have impacts on the Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship portfolio.

This is not meant to replace the minister's coming before the committee on immigration levels numbers, for example, or on the budget, but rather, because of the pandemic, I think it's important for the committee to get an update and to get the lay of the land from the minister and officials on where things are at.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

Next on the list we have Mr. Regan.