Evidence of meeting #23 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was number.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
But I think it's an important pretense that underlines your question.
Bloc
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I am sorry, Madam Chair, but I really do not have much time.
Minister, that is not what I am trying to claim at all. What I'm saying is that if we didn't have to manage Roxham Road under the safe third country agreement, those officers would be deployed differently and more efficiently.
Don't worry, I know you're a family man and you care about gun violence. Precisely because you care, your government should be aware that the safe third country agreement must be suspended while it awaits modernization. Indeed, the prime minister told us yesterday that negotiations were underway with the United States to modernize it.
In fact, Minister, how far along are these negotiations?
How long do you think it will take to reach an agreement? Time is of the essence.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
I'm not in a place to reveal bilateral discussions with the United States. Suffice it say that we have discussions with our American partners on the safe third country agreement, but I have not lined up a specific date where everything is going to be complete.
I have a mandate letter commitment to work with the United States to modernize the safe third country agreement, but there's not an established date when everything will be complete. It's something we need to continue to work on.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I understand that negotiations are underway and that they must remain secret. I am not asking you to disclose the content.
However, can you tell us how soon you hope to sign this agreement and how long you think it will take? People are waiting for it.
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
There's not a declared timeline that I can point to and say it's only going to be this amount of time.
I can reassure people that we're going to continue to work with our provincial counterparts on things like housing, health care and improving our asylum system while we continue to work towards modernizing the safe third country agreement.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
So this is not a priority for your government.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you.
We will now proceed to Ms. Kwan.
Ms. Kwan, you will have two and a half minutes. Please begin.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
The minister has said that it's wrong to separate families, yet this is exactly what's happening. I have an Afghan family, a former Afghan interpreter and his brother, who have been left behind. All the paperwork has been done.
I wrote to the minister about this back in March. It was March 30 to be exact. He has referred it to his staff. As the weeks pass, the IRCC staff still can't even find the file on this situation. They are saying that they are looking for the file and waiting for officials to send it to them.
Just how long does it take within IRCC to get files so they can follow up on cases?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Thank you.
The answer depends on an individual case file. We don't yet have a completely digital system where you can search a database from start to finish and simply pull up a file. I very much want to change this in the years ahead. We have, in many ways, a paper-based system that can be antiquated in certain elements. It can require us to have to reach out to offices on the other side of the world, which may actually have to dig out paper applications that have been submitted. They then have to relay information back.
This is something I desperately want to change because in the 21st century, we need a 21st-century immigration system. The investments have already been made. The work is under way, but how long it takes depends on the facts of an individual file.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Minister, this request was made at the end of March. It is now mid-May and staff have just come back to say that they're looking for the file. Of course, as with all the other applications of Afghan individuals, they sent an email to the officials, so it is in the system somewhere. It's not a paper file; that is for certain.
I hope the minister understands the gravity of the situation and the discrepancy of how things are being dealt with. It seems to me that files cannot be found, most certainly not in an expeditious manner, let alone trying to process it in an expeditious manner.
I brought to the minister, back in February, a request through this committee for a budget breakdown of the $85 million. I got a response back, in this binder, of nothingness that says there's no such information that could be provided and that detailed planning and associated costing is currently taking place.
Does the minister have the detailed planning that he can table to the committee now?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
Every budget line item is not fully established. To be very quick, the areas that the $85 million are going towards are study permits, work permits, TRVs, proof of citizenship and reducing the PR card inventories. In order to address specific budget line items, there's still a certain amount of work to allocate how much money goes to each of those five lines of business.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Thank you, Minister.
We will now end our second round and this panel with two and a half minutes for Mr. Genuis and then two and a half minutes for Mr. El-Khoury, because this panel ends and then we have to go into the second panel. We have to vote.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
Then the second panel would be shorter.
We have to vote after we end this panel, the minister will give opening remarks for five minutes on the backlog issue and then we will go into a round of questioning.
You will have two and a half minutes now.
Conservative
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
On a point of order, Madam Chair, if we have to vote on this, then we need to do that in this first panel. The next panel should not be cut short. We should have the full hour for the next panel.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Salma Zahid
That's what I said. After two and half minutes and two and a half minutes, we will vote and then proceed to the second panel.
Please, Mr. Genuis, go ahead.
Conservative
Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB
Minister, on the issue of Hong Kong, it's been devastating to see recent events out of Hong Kong and the arrest of 90-year-old, retired cardinal Joseph Zen, as well as Canadian citizen Denise Ho, a well-known singer and songwriter, and various others. I'd appreciate your comments on these arrests, and also recognition that there are significant concerns persisting about the immigration measures that are in place for Hong Kong. The special measures don't apply to human rights defenders and pro-democracy activists who don't meet certain economic criteria. The programs look more like they're constructed with economic objectives in mind, instead of to really target human rights defenders.
Another concern about these measures is that they exempt criminal charges under the national security law from consideration, but they do not exempt from consideration the criminal charges related to pro-democracy activism that were made under other laws. There are people who were charged under laws other than the national security law for legitimate pro-democracy activism, who have had challenges being able to access the Canadian immigration system.
Are you contemplating further changes to the special immigration measures around Hong Kong to address those specific problems that I've identified?
Liberal
Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS
The challenges you described are twofold, as I understand it. One is potentially more of an economic than a humanitarian focus. The second is the breadth with which the exemptions for the national security law apply, where it could be more broadly applied to pro-democracy activities.
On the first question, I'm not as concerned about the challenges there because of the nature of the more widely available travel that people from Hong Kong have to Canada, because we don't have an ordinary visa regime. We have the electronic travel authorization, which allows people more freely to enter Canada regardless of the purpose of their travel.
On the second question, I'd be interested if this committee has feedback. My personal view is that if we're dealing with activities that have been criminalized by a regime with whom we may have many points of disagreement, and if those criminal charges don't reflect reprehensible behaviour, in our view, or certainly criminal activity, in our view, then I would be interested in the recommendations this committee may have.