Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 12th, 2022

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I'm desperate to revisit it, but we need to make sure we have the resources in place to allow the system to work. It's one of the things I've struggled with, because I still run an MP's office, too, and my staff run into the same challenges that other constituency staff raise to me through their members of Parliament—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

They have easier access to the minister, though.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Do you know what, though? We try very hard to make sure we run our ship the same way that everybody else does.

You hit on a really important point. One of the biggest challenges I have, to be completely frank with committee members, is realizing that it takes time to hire and train people and get them up to speed. We've received a lot of very serious investments that will help us reach these goals over time.

In the short term, every person I have do one thing is not doing another thing. The explosion of inquiries we've seen from MPs' offices over the last couple of years—and maybe one of our staff could give the accurate numbers if they have them—has really hampered our ability to get back to people in an acceptable way in many instances. We're trying to make decisions that will allow them to say, “Send us the biggest priority cases, and we'll do what we can to get to you as quickly as possible.”

If we didn't have a limit of five cases per day that MPs can send—let's say it was 20—you can expect, unless other very serious changes are made—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I'm sorry, Minister. I understand.

In the time I have left, I want to comment that this explosion is a function of another problem.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Yes, I agree.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

In an ideal world, members of Parliament's offices wouldn't need to be contacted because things would be handled in a satisfactory way. We're not the problem. We're a symptom of another problem, but insofar as that problem exists, people need to go to their members of Parliament and seek their support and advocacy. Shutting off that channel as well compounds the problem and limits people's opportunity to receive additional advocacy when they experience problems. It's very hard for us to identify what are and are not priority cases, to choose whose marriage is more important or whose funeral.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

I'm sorry for interrupting, Mr. Genuis. The time is up.

We will now proceed—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I will want to revisit this, because this is important. I'll build it into a subsequent answer so that I don't jeopardize other members' time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will now proceed to Mr. Dhaliwal.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you will have six minutes. Please begin.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

A common and frequent concern I'm hearing is in regard to the processing of permanent resident travel documents. For example, in India, the current processing times are upwards of four months. Many without valid PR cards who have to travel abroad on a moment's notice or for an emergency situation are then stuck outside Canada for a minimum of four months before having the opportunity to return home. This can be particularly difficult for individuals when families are separated, young families particularly, or those having to return to their respective employment duties.

Could the minister touch on whether this is a matter that is on IRCC's radar and something that the department hopes to address?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you to the member.

I view this issue to be related to the question we received earlier. I agree with the prior member that it is not a problem in and of itself that MPs want to reach out to the minister's office. That is normal and that's a necessary part of our system.

It is a function of another problem caused by the closure of the border to protect the public from the spread of COVID-19, which caused us to pivot our strategy to resettle more people who were already in Canada, rather than people who were in third countries. That built up the number of cases of people who wanted to come. At the same time, local offices around the world were sometimes shut down as a result of local public health measures. We've also seen Canada become the world's destination of choice and the number of applications increased. All of this has put pressure on the system, including on the issues of PR cards, because we have a finite number of resources at a given point in time to allocate in certain places.

Now, to your question on the the economic and fiscal update, the $85 million I referred to in my opening remarks specifically includes funding that's going to go to reduce the inventories for PR card wait times.

Mr. Mills is on the line with us.

Dan, if you have the timelines that we expect to get back to a better service standard, would you be willing to share that with the committee?

[Daniel Mills, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

The processing time for renewing permanent resident cards was about 120 days in December. I'm very happy to say that it's about 65 days today.

So we've made a lot of progress, and we're continuing to reduce the backlog as much as possible to reach our target of less than 60 days.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Madam Chair, this is not what I asked of the minister.

This is about the PRTD, which is the travel document that people require. With six months wait on the PR cards.... Families have to travel overseas. Particularly when it comes to India, I have seen families separated for four months just to get the PRTD, which we used to get within two weeks, prior to the COVID situation.

Even during the COVID situation, I can tell you that the IRCC staff in India were very helpful, particularly the woman who is back in Vancouver now.

Nowadays, four months is not acceptable to get that travel document. I want to see what steps IRCC is taking to deal with that.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I apologize if we didn't nail your question on the head. I think they're inextricably linked. To the extent that we can sort out PR card processing times, the need for the travel document won't be there.

I feel badly that we've taken up more of your questioning time, so I'll offer to give you an answer in writing. If you would like to continue with your questioning in the time you have, I'd be happy to allow that.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Minister, I also chair the Special Committee on Afghanistan. We've heard heart-wrenching testimony over the past many months regarding the plight of Afghans trying to leave the country and hoping to begin a new life here in Canada. In recent weeks, we have seen an increase in Afghan refugees arriving in Canada. It's my understanding that there are about 12,000 individuals who have put their feet on Canadian soil.

Could the minister please touch on the work the department has done recently to ramp up the efforts to bring Afghans to Canada, and also touch on some of the difficulties in processing Afghan refugees compared with refugees coming from other parts of the globe?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dhaliwal.

During my recent appearance at the Afghan committee, we went over some of those challenges in great detail. They primarily relate to safe passage through and outside of Afghanistan for onward travel to Canada.

One of the things that is really encouraging to me is the uptick in the pace of arrivals we've seen very recently. In April, we had approximately 2,500 Afghan refugees land in Canada in that one month. Yesterday we saw just shy of 300 privately sponsored refugees arrive on a flight from Tajikistan. Tomorrow we will have another flight with 330 SIM arrivals, which are those who have come through special immigration measures because of their service to Canada. They will be arriving on a flight from Pakistan.

It's really encouraging to see this uptick in the pace of arrivals. It gives me faith that we're going to be able to more quickly meet our goal to resettle the total of 40,000 we've committed to.

There are still immense challenges on the ground. You can imagine the logistical concerns when you're dealing with a territory that has been seized by the Taliban, where you do not have access. By working with international partners, we are continuing to identify people, have them enter our program and process them. It's really a special thing when you have the opportunity to meet some of these now nearly 13,000 people who call Canada home.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Minister.

The time is up for Mr. Dhaliwal.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to go back to the last answer that was just given about the objective of welcoming 40,000 Afghans by the end of the year.

The minister said that was his goal, and he also said that to the Special Committee on Afghanistan, on which I have the privilege of sitting as well.

Madam Chair, I would like the minister to provide the committee with a detailed plan of the steps he plans to take to reach his goal by the end of 2022. It could be as simple as a table, but I would like to know the pace that the minister intends to follow to reach his target.

I have asked the same of the Special Committee on Afghanistan, but I have not received a reply to date, as far as I know.

The minister assures us that he will achieve his goal, and I hope he is right, but he should show us his plan. Is that possible, Madam Chair?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Madam Chair, I would like to clarify that the target is to take in 40,000 Afghan refugees over the next two years, so in 2022 and 2023.

There are certain folks whom we'll have a bit more predictability with, particularly when they are people who are approved in a third country. There are still some uncertainties for the people, whom we will not go back on our commitment to, who are still in Afghanistan.

I don't want to sugar-coat things. It is really challenging to move people through Afghanistan. The stories are the most heartbreaking things that I've ever had to work with or live through. The challenges are enormous, and if we can solve these safe passage concerns, we will have more predictability in the schedule by which we expect people to arrive. There are certain groups for whom we have not yet unlocked the pathway to get them out of Afghanistan, which may not be as predictable.

I can't give you exactly to a person month by month by month. I can give you trends. I can give you what's happened already. I can give upcoming expected flights. There will be certain challenges for people who are in Afghanistan for whom there is not yet a pathway to leave Afghanistan.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

In fact, my point is this.

If the government tells us it has a goal that it has promised to achieve, as it has said several times, then logically it must have a plan. A goal of this magnitude is not easy to achieve.

The minister explained very well the difficulty of getting people out of Afghanistan. There must therefore be a plan to support such a goal. However, the committee has not been given any explanation of this plan. No information has been provided on this.

All we would like, in order to be able to do our job properly, is to know the government's plan to reach its goal. As I understand it, it is not even a goal, but a promise. A promise necessarily comes with a plan.

Is it possible to get that plan?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

You know, it's an interesting thing because we don't develop these plans in the abstract. We deal with the uncertainties of conflict. When we're not in control of the facts on the ground, I hesitate to promise certainty on the exact date by which people for whom there is not yet a pathway to leave Afghanistan.... I believe we will be able to achieve our goal, and at the current pace of arrivals—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

That's different, then. The message we have been hearing since the beginning has just changed completely. We were promised—and the prime minister himself has said it several times—that this goal would be achieved within the planned timeframe.

But what I've just heard is that you feel—you believe—that you might be able to do it. That is very different from what you said earlier. One must be clear with the words, Minister.

Are you sure you can do it? Is it a promise?

It does not matter if the promise is broken, Minister. You just have to be clear with the Afghans. If the promise is broken, I'm not the one who will suffer the consequences, but the Afghan people who are waiting to come to Canada.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I understand your point, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, but the message is no different. The commitment is the same today as it was during the 2021 election campaign.

It's really important that I'm honest with people though. Our goal remains to resettle 40,000 Afghan refugees at least by next year. I think we can still do that. I am confident we can still do that, but I don't want to breeze over the fact that the territories are controlled by the Taliban. We are working to move people with partners on the ground. I believe that, with those partnerships, we will meet our goal, and I have not wavered one iota from the very beginning of this story to today in my commitment to be successful in that goal.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Minister, I thank you for your honesty.

You should look at the statements made by Mr. Trudeau during the election campaign. You would see that they differ from what you've just told us.

You announced a two-week turnaround time for processing the Canada-Ukraine authorization for emergency travel. You said that, once the plan was in place, processing times would be two weeks.

Currently, processing times are four to five weeks, which is two or even two and a half times longer than what was planned. This is what is being said on the ground, and this is the data we have at present.

Do you have the same data as I do?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

No. That's not the same story that I've heard.

Again, not to put you, Mr. Mills, on the spot, but would you like to give an update on ordinary processing times? There may be some unique exceptions, but in the majority of cases....

Dan, if you could provide clarity, that would be helpful.