Evidence of meeting #57 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
It's complex. Okay, perfect; that's what I thought you would say.
When the pandemic hit in March 2020, programs like the Canada emergency response benefit and the Canada emergency wage subsidy were put in place within a few weeks because it was urgent that we act swiftly.
Wasn't it complex to set up those programs?
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
…and I'm very proud to have taken part in the discussions to set up those programs.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I am too.
In your opinion, is a Canadian who has lost their job and is in urgent need of help more important than an Afghan child who is dying because the situation is so urgent?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
We can't compare the two.
We have to work in a context where the situation in Afghanistan is constantly changing. Obviously, we have concerns about institutions and agencies that are currently doing exceptional work in Afghanistan, but we also have laws to counter terrorism financing. In addition, Canada's justice system is unique: we have prosecutors, investigators and police.
It's not necessarily an easy situation.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Okay. We were able to help when the pandemic struck, but we're unable to help when children are dying and we have a duty to protect them because we took part in the deployment in Afghanistan. That's what I understand.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
Respectfully, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, that's not what I said.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
You took a long time to step up even though you knew the situation was very serious and you were aware of the problem.
What's more, you talked about Resolution 1373 adopted in 2001 by the U.N. Security Council. You said that it took the government a few months to enact legislation to accommodate and amend the Criminal Code in response to that resolution.
On December 22, 2021, U.N. Security Council Resolution 2615 was tabled to prevent the financing of terrorist entities and to allow NGOs to do their work on the ground.
Why did it take only a few months to respond to a U.N. Security Council resolution in 2001, but it took 18 months in 2021?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
So it was possible to do it in 2001, but it wasn't possible to do it in 2021.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
I wasn't in government at the time.
That said, we just introduced a bill that is very much in line with that second resolution.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
That's fine. So it was easier to act swiftly in 2001 than it was in 2021.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
That's not what I said. You're putting words in my mouth and that's not really right.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I'm sorry, I certainly wouldn't want to do that.
Have you consulted with NGOs operating in countries where Bill C‑41 would apply?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
It's Minister Mendicino's job to do those consultations. To my knowledge, he has done some, based on the interactions I saw between such NGOs and him at a press conference.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I don't believe we consulted with Doctors Without Borders, which is quite a large humanitarian organization.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I'm going to ask you a fairly simple question that Doctors Without Borders wants me to ask you: Why has this government, which committed to upholding international humanitarian law by ratifying the Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols as early as 1965, not suggested that we adopt a blanket exemption to automatically exclude impartial humanitarian actors and activities from the terrorism offences that apply to the entire section of the Criminal Code, and not just to section 83.03(b), as proposed by a number of NGOs and by the Special Committee on Afghanistan in its report?
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
As I said, we have a framework in Canada where investigations are conducted and prosecutions are brought independently of government. It's something Rob Nicholson did as a minister, and I fully support what he did. So we have to work within that system, which doesn't necessarily work the same way as it does in the United States, England or other countries. We've chosen a regime that can protect organizations like Doctors Without Borders and allow us to meet our other obligations, while also respecting the institutions that were made in Canada.
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Why didn't you suggest that we adopt the blanket exemption? That was my simple question to you.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
It's a question best asked of the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Ms. Joly.
