Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 29th, 2023

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I understand. Let's try this a slightly different way. Is there a mechanism within Canadian law to extend ministerial delegations of authority to people such as members of Parliament or senators?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

It depends on what you're doing. If you're asking me, as Attorney General, if I can delegate the authority to prosecute, we've already hived that off as an independent prosecution service in Canada. We have also hived off the ability to undertake criminal investigations. We've given that power to the police.

In terms of my portfolio, these things have already been done. As I said, they were done by a Conservative government. I am very strongly in favour of their having been done. I think we have a better system because of it. We have a much more neutral and much less political system because of it.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I guess what I'm getting at here is the situation with Senator McPhedran, where the Minister of Immigration and the Minister of National Defence, who hold the authorities of those departments, were supposedly, allegedly, used by Senator McPhedran. What I'm trying to find out is whether there's any mechanism in the government for that delegation of authority to somehow end up in a senator's hands.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

I had nothing to do with that situation. I'm not going to comment on it.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

I'm not accusing you of anything. That's why I'm asking a more general question.

Is it possible, in your knowledge of the law and how it works in the government, for that authority to be delegated in such a way from one department to another like that?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Global Affairs Canada, I know, was issuing certain documents in order to help people get out of Afghanistan. My understanding is that there were other false documents that were also circulated.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Is it possible for the senator to have had authorization from any department to do anything that would be in the delegation of authority?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Again, I wasn't party or privy to any of those conversations.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have five seconds.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

We will end this panel with Mr. Dhaliwal for five minutes.

Mr. Dhaliwal, you can begin, please.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam Chair, I would love to thank the honourable minister for appearing before the committee. It has always been an honour to work with him in his role as a minister and in his role as a parliamentary secretary before that.

Madam Chair, the Special Committee on Afghanistan has done great work. Members of all different stripes came together and made those recommendations. Those recommendations are being put in place.

I have some questions before I give the minister plenty of time to respond to any of the issues he wanted to speak to but was cut off from during other remarks. First, how is this legislation better than the status quo? That is what I would like to hear and have Canadians listen to.

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal, for that question. Again, it's a pleasure to work with you, as well, although our time way back in international trade ages both of us, probably me more than you.

The status quo creates uncertainty. It creates legal risk for Canadian humanitarian organizations working on the ground in Afghanistan, because it would rely on the discretion of both police investigators and prosecutors to not prosecute them under the fairly clear terms of the Criminal Code of Canada.

While one would hope, I suppose, in an ideal world, that discretion would be exercised in a way that benefits Canadian humanitarian organizations, one can't guarantee it. The organizations were looking for certainty. They want to be able to say to their workers, the people who are collaborating with them and the people who are working for them on the ground that they will be protected from being prosecuted under the Canadian anti-terrorist financing regime.

What this law does is give certainty. How? It does that by allowing an organization to apply to the Minister of Public Safety for an exemption from the provisions of the Criminal Code. That happens, and hopefully, it will be done. Hopefully, the law will be passed quickly. Hopefully, the organizations are already preparing their applications to the Minister of Public Safety, and then immediately they'll be able to get that approval, an exemption, and they'll be able to do the good work that they do on the ground without fear of prosecution in Canada.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Minister, you mentioned dealing with terrorism when it comes to this legislation. Could changing Canadian law here undermine our ability to combat terrorism?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

No. As I mentioned to Madame Lalonde, I think maintaining the anti-terrorist financing legislation as the baseline prevents, frankly, the potential for the abuse of a larger carve-out for all humanitarian work, because it allows the organization in question to apply and it allows the minister to look at the work that is proposed to be done on the ground, all the while keeping the anti-terrorist financing legislation in place so that it can be appropriately monitored.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, there were many instances in which you were cut off when you wanted to make remarks. Would you like to take the minute and a half that I have left—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You have one minute left.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

—to address anything that you haven't addressed?

[David Lametti, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

You've been corrected by the chair.

Thank you. It is a good piece of legislation. It is a compromise that respects the structure of Canadian investigations, prosecutions and the Canadian Criminal Code. It allows us to allow that humanitarian work to take place, and it allows those anti-terrorism financing laws to remain as the baseline.

I hope this committee will support the passage of this legislation. I hope all parties will support the passage of this legislation so we can allow those good organizations to do their work as soon as possible.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Surrey—Newton, BC]

Thank you, Minister, for being here and for all the great work you do. Continue to do that. I wish you the very best.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Mr. Dhaliwal.

With that, this panel comes to an end.

On behalf of all the members of this committee, I really want to thank you, Minister, for appearing and taking the time.

Thank you to the officials also.

With that, the meeting is suspended for a few minutes to allow the next panel to take their seats.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

For this panel, we are joined by the Honourable Anita Anand, Minister of National Defence.

Thank you, Minister, for joining this committee.

We are also joined by the officials from the Department of National Defence. We have Mr. Bill Matthews, deputy minister; General Wayne D. Eyre, chief of the defence staff, Canadian Armed Forces; and Major-General Paul Prévost, director of staff, strategic joint staff.

Minister, you will have five minutes for your opening remarks. Then we will go to our round of questioning.

Welcome to this committee. You can please begin.

[The Honourable Anita Anand, Liberal, Anita Anand]

Good afternoon. Thank you for the invitation to appear today to update you on the Department of National Defence's response to the final report of the Special Committee on Afghanistan.

Under Operation Aegis, the Canadian Armed Forces responded swiftly to support federal efforts to evacuate Canadian citizens and Afghans eligible for resettlement, providing strategic airlift capabilities to help bring them to safety. In the final report, National Defence is implicated in recommendations 1, 2 and 18. Today, I will discuss the actions that we have taken to respond to each.

First of all, recommendation 1 calls for the government to re-examine our lessons learned from our missions in Afghanistan and to apply those in future planning and response.

The Canadian Armed Forces conducted a number of exercises, at all levels, after Operation Aegis ended to identify areas for improvement in relevant policies, programs and operations. As a result, our coordination mechanisms have grown stronger, and we have built on the success of our strategic airlift operations in Afghanistan, as well as in co-operation with allies and partners, which was so critical to that success.

We see this in the work that continues today in Ukraine, as the Canadian Armed Forces provide technical airlift capabilities to support military aid donations in Europe.

We have deployed the Royal Canadian Air Force to Prestwick, Scotland, a hub from which our aviators have transported over seven million pounds of Ukraine-bound military aid.

The second recommendation calls for the federal government to establish “a structure for interdepartmental coordination” to respond to future crises, with Global Affairs Canada as the lead.

National Defence participates in the interdepartmental task force that brings together the departments from across government implicated in a given crisis to enable a timely, effective and comprehensive whole-of-government response. We have seen time and time again that, during international crises, the Canadian Armed Forces rise to the challenge and provide critical capabilities for the government and the country. I thank them from the bottom of my heart.

But we know these are just one part of the broader toolkit to address complex global issues.

We will continue working closely with Global Affairs Canada and collaborating with our other government partners to respond to emergencies at home and abroad.

Finally, recommendation 18 calls for Global Affairs “to assemble a whole-of-government team” to help bring Afghans to safety.

Since the outset of the crisis in Afghanistan, National Defence has worked closely with other government departments to bring as many Afghans as possible to safety. We continue to support IRCC with their goal of resettling 40,000 Afghans by 2024.

This includes validating applications in support of IRCC's new policy to help reunite former language and cultural advisors with members of their extended family outside Canada.

In conclusion, Canadian Armed Forces members have shared their stories about what Operation Aegis meant to them.

Corporal Mackenzie Birch recalls evacuating a child on the second-to-last flight out of Kabul in August. The child carried by his mother was exhausted and drained of emotion. Many months later, Corporal Birch saw that child once again, this time on a flight from Toronto to Vancouver. The young boy was one of many Afghan refugees on the plane who were headed to Vancouver to build a new life.

Corporal Birch felt so much optimism seeing that child who months earlier could barely manage a smile, but was now happy and full of hope for a better, brighter future.

Corporal Birch realized he had become part of the story of Operation Aegis, and part of the effort and sacrifice of thousands of Canadians and Afghans over the past 20 years: the CANSOFCOM members helping the vulnerable and the elderly; the aircraft officers working tirelessly to help the scared passengers; and the medical team tending to those who needed it most. That is the story of Operation Aegis.

That connection is what drives us to keep working hard, every day, to advance peace and prosperity around the world.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Thank you, Minister.

We will now begin our rounds of questioning. We will begin our first round with Ms. Rempel Garner for six minutes.

Ms. Rempel Garner, please begin.