Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2023

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'll just go back to the previous question that I asked, Mr. Minister. I've farmed all of my life. In farming, timing is important. There's the window to harvest, and for doing other field work it can be quite small. Would it be reasonable for farmers to have valid concerns that open work permits could potentially put them in a situation where they couldn't get their crops off if another farmer with a valid LMIA came by and offered them a better deal?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Yes, the concern is reasonable.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Is the government aware of any other G7 countries that allow open work permits for comparable programs that are seasonal in nature? If they are, could they table them, please?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We'd have to check. We don't know.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Can we have those tabled if there are any?

I was pleased to see that you indicated that no farmer who is using a temporary foreign worker or seasonal agriculture worker has ever approached you about changing the permit to an open work permit. Is that correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

The time is up.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'd have to get back to you on the tenet of that conversation, but it wasn't a full discussion on keeping everything closed. It was about really making sure that employees, including temporary foreign workers, were properly treated and how proud they were of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Mr. Ali, you have five minutes and then we will thank the minister.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing before the committee. Thank you for your recent announcement on stabilizing Canada's immigration targets.

We have heard from many temporary foreign workers that they come to Canada for better opportunities and that they wish to establish themselves permanently.

Could you please expand on this or inform this committee of pathways to permanent residence available to temporary foreign workers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

As I mentioned to one of your colleagues, MP Ali, there are a number of areas in which the transition from temporary residence to permanent residence is a real possibility.

It is not open to everyone, and I think that should remain the case given our concerns around international mobility rights and the reciprocal arrangements we have with other countries.

I think it is legitimate to say that as well in the context of our own orderly migration, with respect to which I spoke last week and made an announcement about the levels. Given those levels I spoke about and announced last week and the strategic review that we performed, clearly there need to be, in addition to the topics covered today about abuse, methods whereby someone can come to Canada as a temporary foreign worker and aspire to be Canadian through the path of permanent residence. That is the case for more than one hundred thousand people. The exact number I could provide to the committee if it so wished, but it is a large flow.

It isn't every international student who becomes a permanent resident, a Canadian. It isn't every farm labourer who becomes a permanent resident, but there are pathways, whether it's express entry on the Canadian experience class where people come here and get points for the experience that they have, the federal skilled worker program, which is a federally administered program based on skill sets, or—something provinces really enjoy—the provincial nominee program, and in the case of Quebec the jurisdiction that it exercises under the Canada-Quebec Accord, which goes back 30 years now.

There are ways—and they are important—but I'm also looking at a number of ways in which we can increase that, particularly in areas where we need workers. We need to offer them a little more hope than simply saying, “Come here; build a building and go home.” That is notably in the construction area, and these are policies that I haven't announced yet. We're still working on them and examining them to make sure there is no abuse and that there is a pathway to permanent residency and citizenship eventually.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

On immigration consultants, this government has put in place the College of Immigration and Citizenship Consultants to regulate immigration consultants and protect Canadian clients from nefarious bad actors and which the Conservatives have voted against.

In 2022, the government also implemented a code of professional conduct for consultants.

Can you explain the role that the college plays in reprimanding bad actors in our immigration system, specifically when it comes to temporary foreign workers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

The college is up and working. Its essential goal is to make sure that the code for professional conduct for consultants establishes strong ethical and professional standards that all licensed consultants must abide by. Obviously, the worst actors don't get licensed. Clearly, this is a mechanism that is important for people who are served by them—to have that assurance that they will get the proper advice. In the industry, there is some real opportunism, some real fraud and people taking advantage of folks. I think the college is an important step in making sure that people are behaving the way they should.

I would say there's that part of it, and there's also making sure that they're providing regulatory advice to us on what we can do better. Improving oversight and strengthening enforcement, as well as increasing accountability, was enabled by an investment of about $48 million over four years, with a $10-million ongoing commitment. That has allowed us to put this into place.

Essentially, we're talking of consultants who range from 6,000 in 2018 to now 12,000 in 2022. I've met with them. We expect their role to be even more prominent in an area where we're facing an historic volume of people wanting to come to Canada who are subject to abuse.

Obviously, the concern that needs to be addressed is some of the opportunism that happens abroad. That's something that also needs to be stemmed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much. The time is up.

On behalf of the committee members and as chair, I would love to thank the minister for being with us today.

Minister, thank you. I'm looking forward to seeing you many more times here.

I will suspend the meeting for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I call the meeting back to order.

Two officials, Madam Fox and Mr. Gionet, are with us. We are also joined by Mr. Michael MacPhee, assistant deputy minister of the temporary foreign worker program, from the Department of Employment and Social Development.

We'll go straight to the questions, and we'll start the first round with my dear friend, Mr. Maguire, for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here for part of our second hour.

I just have some questions for the officials here with regard to some of the things that I was asking the minister.

Does the department regularly meet with agricultural businesses or farmers to gather feedback on how to improve the temporary foreign worker program or the seasonal agricultural worker program?

[Christiane Fox, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

I think the answer is yes. We do meet with a number of sectors of the economy that use the TFW program or the IMP to get feedback on what's working, what's not and what some of the considerations are. I think there are important considerations to balance as we make decisions.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Has anyone from the agriculture sector ever recommended that the government adopt an open work permit system for temporary foreign workers?

[Christiane Fox]

To me directly? No, I don't think I've heard that request before. However, I have heard some comments and considerations around, perhaps, sector-specific, region-specific...and collaboration between different companies. That is something that's come to light. It's not particularly from a farmer, but in the context of processing plants, etc., I think that's come to—

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'm just talking about the agriculture sector.

Has the department ever specifically asked farmers that question—about an open work permit system?

[Michael MacPhee, Assistant Deputy Minister, Temporary Foreign Worker Program, Department of Employment and Social Development]

The seasonal agricultural worker program actually does have some level of mobility in it already. There is an opportunity for workers to move between farmers that both have LMIAs, as long as there's an agreement for that movement to take place.

I think the community is interested in looking at ways to facilitate the movement of workers so that it's mutually beneficial for both the workers and the employers, and so that the employers have the opportunity to use workers during specific crop—

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Since the implementation of the migrant worker support program and the government's creation of a process to allow—as you were saying—a worker to change jobs due to concerns about their work environment or employer, how many workers have changed jobs? Is there a number that you can provide me with there?

[Christiane Fox]

For the open work permits for employees who are vulnerable, I would say a few things.

One, since the inception of the program, 4,000 open work permits have been given to vulnerable workers, and this year we have 1,320. Even if an employee has left his or her position, or has been terminated, he or she can still get an open work permit for vulnerable employees.

I would also add that there is a low evidentiary threshold, which is something that the UN special rapporteur has asked us to look into, and our staff who deal with it do get trauma-informed training.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

There are a couple of things about the special rapporteur.

Are you aware that during his investigation, he didn't visit a farm in Canada?

[Christiane Fox]

I was not aware that he had not visited a farm in Canada.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Are you aware that he couldn't provide an example of another western country that has a good temporary foreign worker program?