Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2023

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

You would have to ask the RCMP.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Is slavery happening in Canada today—yes or no?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

That is a loaded question, Larry. It's ridiculous for you to ask that type of question. You should be ashamed.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'm just—

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Come on, Larry. You can do better than that.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

You're looking at a rapporteur's—

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

You're the one asking me if there's slavery in Canada, for God's sake. I mean, you're better than that—really.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

So it's an easy answer.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

What's your answer? What do you think, Larry?

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I think “no”, but the UN rapporteur—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

No crosstalk, please.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

All I'm saying is that [Inaudible—Editor] not following his rapporteur.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Okay. Next question.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Once a worker comes to Canada, informing them of their rights under the program is paramount. Your government has stated that this is currently happening.

Can you please confirm, yes or no, whether your government is ensuring that the workers are being informed of their rights?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We're doing our utmost. We've made a number of regulatory changes to make sure that employers are doing a better job of making sure that people are informed of their rights, including in the context of an employment agreement.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'm pleased to hear that too, because that disagrees with what the special rapporteur said.

Your government implemented the migrant worker support program, which includes a safe and secure environment for the workers to report abuse and then change jobs.

I'm looking for a yes or no: Has your government failed to give workers the process to change jobs if claims of abuse are confirmed?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

There is a process we have to allow people to switch. For the benefit of this committee, I will let you know that there are about 4,000 authorizations that we have accepted. However, again, this is a regulatory process that is run by my department.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Has a farmer who's currently using temporary foreign workers or seasonal agricultural workers ever approached you to change the program to allow for open permits for workers, yes or no?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I'm sorry. You'll have to repeat the question.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'm wondering if a farmer who is using temporary foreign workers or seasonal agricultural workers has ever approached you to change the program to allow for open permits for workers. Has any farmer ever asked for that?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Not to my knowledge.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you. The time is up.

We'll go to Mr. El-Khoury for five minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister.

The UN special rapporteur also recommended that Canada provide all migrant workers with a clear path to permanent residency to prevent situations of abuse.

Can you give us an update on what IRCC is doing to help migrant workers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

It's clear from the report that improvements need to be made to the program. I don't think getting rid of closed permits with the stroke of a pen is necessarily the way to go. As the Bloc Québécois member pointed out, that could create a breeding ground for abuse. We can recognize that. I would also say, though, that the vast majority of people who use the program to contribute to Canada's economy do so in good faith and are outstanding participants.

There is no doubt that there are cases of abuse, and that's what we need to be focusing on, as a country, to make sure those situations don't continue. Nevertheless, I don't think just switching the program over to an open work permit regime is a good idea. Farmers and producers have put a lot of money into welcoming and housing these workers. I don't think that is the right way to go, from an economic or human standpoint. I haven't been to any farms, but I have met with people who treat their employees wonderfully. I think the approach has to be surgical, if I can put it that way.

I don't entirely agree with the UN special rapporteur's conclusion, but I do want to get at the root cause. More flexibility for open permits in abusive cases or more regional measures, if that's desirable, are things we could consider. We are always open to those possibilities. Our main goal is to stamp out abuse.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

The caregiver program is a good example of balancing a worker's ability to change employers with the objectives of the program. For years, the program, inherited from the Conservatives, was plagued by cases of abuse and harassment because the Conservatives allowed it to happen.

Minister, we dismantled the Conservatives' program and replaced it with two programs, the home child care provider pilot and the home support worker pilot.

Can you describe the changes our government has made to protect caregivers from abuse?