Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 7th, 2023

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Not necessarily; the reality is that there are people who come here and there is no intention for them to either stay—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

No, but if they wanted to stay.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

If we believe in international labour mobility, we have to look as well at partner countries and how they welcome similarly situated people who come to them from Canada.

I think, in a sense, with great respect, you are mixing apples and oranges. Whether we're talking about international students who may or may not want to stay here—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

No, I'm talking about temporary foreign workers.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Well, you cited numbers that have nothing to do with temporary foreign workers. Temporary foreign workers are only [Inaudible—Editor]—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

No. Those are temporary foreign worker numbers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

No crosstalk, please.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

There weren't 700,000 temporary foreign workers in that program in the last year. If you're talking about the international mobility program, we're talking about a million. That's a different regulatory category with open work permits.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Minister. Time is up.

We will move to the next round.

Mr. Maguire, you have five minutes, please.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, you have been in your position for three months. Congratulations.

Have you visited a farm that employs temporary foreign workers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

As I mentioned to your colleague, I have met with representatives, but I have not visited a farm, no.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Neither has the special UN rapporteur.

You stated in a recent interview that the government needs to "cohesively and comprehensively" respond to the reality that temporary foreign workers are often exploited in the agriculture sector. You must have hard data to back up that claim.

I'm just looking for a number. Since 2015, how many farmers have been banned from using foreign workers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

We do have statistics for you, Larry, on various levels of enforcement, whether it is a ban or a regulatory citation. Just for reference—it's worth reading into the record—there are 310 employers that can't access IMP or TFW for a variety of reasons, one with a permanent ban and 18 with a temporary ban.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thanks.

A recent government report stated, and I think your number has just confirmed it, that almost 95% of businesses are fully compliant with the temporary foreign worker program. For the ones that are not, many of the concerns were administrative in nature, from the reports that I've read, and only a handful were deemed to be of a serious nature.

I'm just looking for a yes or no: Under your watch, do you believe there is wide-scale abuse being conducted by farmers?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

Look, I don't know who you're trying to defend here. We're trying to get the people who have committed some bad acts. I don't want to cast aspersions on an industry. Neither do you, but feel free, if you want.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

No. I'm just asking—

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

And I'm just answering.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

—if you have any kind of a number. I mean, 95% of your own businesses are saying they're compliant.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

But 1% is too much. I mean, that's the issue that we have to drive at. I'm not trying to attack an industry. There are some really good actors. That isn't the intention of anything that we're saying, but if there's one bad actor, we have to crack down on it. We're Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

No crosstalk, please.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

To follow up on what my colleagues have said, the UN special rapporteur has said that the temporary foreign worker program constitutes “a breeding ground for contemporary forms of slavery”.

Under your watch, are you allowing forms of slavery to happen?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

I don't agree with the sentiment. I don't agree with the statement, but as I have said, I am concerned about the people he spoke to. That's something I think we need to focus on as a government.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I'm glad of your answer.

With regard to the Criminal Code in Canada, the government passed three parts in 2017—section 279.011, section 279.02 and section 279.03.

How many cases of slavery are under investigation by the RCMP in Canada today?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

You would have to ask the RCMP.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

You don't know.