Evidence of meeting #11 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was claim.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Brassard  Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
Eatrides  Deputy Chairperson, Refugee Protection Division, Immigration and Refugee Board
Green  Lawyer, Immigration, Association québécoise des avocats et avocates en droit de l’immigration
Wallace  Assistant Professor, Refugee Law Lab
Okun-Nachoff  Barrister and Solicitor, The Canadian Bar Association
Robinson  Barrister and Solicitor, The Canadian Bar Association

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 11 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

I usually make a few general comments. Soon I will have memorized all of these, and then you can give me a test.

I'm going to begin with a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and the members.

I have two cards, a yellow one and a red one. Yellow means that you have one minute left. Red means that your time is up.

Kindly wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. I will remind everyone to please not speak over each other, as it will be hard for our translators to translate, and it makes their job difficult.

Of course, please ensure that all your comments are addressed through the chair.

Members, as you all know, kindly raise your hand if you wish to speak. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

Thank you in advance for your co-operation.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on October 23, the committee is resuming its study of the subject matter of Bill C-12, an act respecting certain measures relating to the security of Canada's borders and the integrity of the Canadian immigration system and respecting other related security measures.

This is our second meeting out of four to discuss the immigration sections of Bill C-12.

I would now like to warmly welcome our witnesses for the first panel.

On behalf of the Immigration and Refugee Board, we have Manon Brassard, chairperson; Roger Ermuth, executive director; and Roula Eatrides, deputy chairperson, refugee protection division.

Welcome to all of you.

Ms. Brassard, I now invite you to make an opening statement of up to five minutes, after which we will proceed to rounds of questions.

Manon Brassard Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Madam Chair, I thank the committee for giving us the opportunity to speak to you about the Immigration and Refugee Board.

As you know, the IRB is a quasi-judicial tribunal. We report to Parliament through the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship. Our mandate is to resolve immigration and refugee matters efficiently, fairly and in accordance with the law.

As an administrative tribunal, we must use our expertise to hear and decide a high volume of cases. The IRB issued 102,000 decisions last year. Of those, 78,000 were decisions from the refugee protection division. That's a 42% productivity increase from the year before, with a funded capacity of 60,000 cases.

To resolve so many cases, we harmonized, simplified and standardized our processes across the country. We now manage our inventory nationally. We used technology and automated our processes wherever possible, and we manage our inventory in a way that maximizes time for hearings.

High volume is nothing if our hearings are not conducted in a way that upholds natural justice and procedural fairness. Our reasons for a decision must meet the test of the Supreme Court in Vavilov. They must offer sufficient justification, be transparent and be easily understandable for the reviewing courts and, most importantly, for the claimants themselves. That's normal. We hear cases that involve charter-protected rights—life, liberty and security—and that can't be reduced to a checklist exercise.

We know our decisions pass the test because they aren't often overturned. Last year, the Federal Court overturned 1% of the refugee protection division and the refugee appeal division decisions.

I'd like to turn to our challenges.

You all know about the RPD inventory. It stands now at around 290,000 claims. A third of those are incomplete files. How did we arrive at that number?

The answer is fairly simple. There were two years of historically high levels of intake. In 2022-23, there were 154,000 claims in one year. In 2024-25, the year we just finished, there were 176,000 claims. We were funded for 60,000 claims; we finalized 78,000 claims.

We can contrast that with the previous 10 years when intake was, on average, 29,000 or 30,000 claims, and the board finalized on average 26,000 claims. If you look at the few years towards the end of that 10-year period, the highest was 75,000 for intake and 48,000 for finalization.

At the end of 2022, before the numbers I mentioned earlier, the caseload was 54,000. At current capacity—around 80,000, with the improvement we've made—we could do the 54,000 claims in eight months, just to give you a sense of capacity, if it hadn't been for a huge intake.

Because the current asylum claims inventory is relatively young, mostly less than two years old, a case decided today has waited about 22 months for a decision. That includes the six to eight months it takes for CBSA to do security screening.

For a case being sent to us today, given our ability to finalize about 80,000 a year and with the capacity we have, it would take about 44 months or 45 months to issue a decision.

The IRB-funded capacity is now 70,000 decisions, but, like I mentioned, with the improvements we made, this year we think we can reach at least 80,000 decisions. The IRB has invested to increase its productivity. Some of our projects have already delivered real results—that's why we do better—and others are about to become reality. We've seen real, concrete progress, but there's more to do. That's why I'm confident that the board can continue to successfully meet the challenges ahead and play its part in a much larger Canada asylum system.

With this, Madam Chair, I turn the floor back over to you, and I look forward to the exchange today.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

You are a professional, Ms. Brassard. That was three seconds before your time, so an excellent job, and thank you for the wonderful introductions.

Our first round is a round of six-minute questions. I'm going to ask the questioner to please be succinct with your questions, allow for the answers, but kindly, witnesses, please make sure that you give your answers as quickly as possible too.

We start with Mr. Redekopp for six minutes.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for being here today.

You spoke about the capacity and the way that you tried to go after the increase in your capacity to deal with that high-volume inventory of asylum claims, which was caused by a lot of things—inefficiency of the government and other things. However, I want to talk a little about another aspect, which would be reducing the number of claims we have, the volume that's there. My first question is about the safe third country agreement. Do you agree with the position of the Government of Canada—and it's been stated here multiple times—that the United States is a safe third country?

3:35 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Manon Brassard

That's a policy decision. I have no comment on that.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

I think it's been established by the government that it is.

Would you agree that Great Britain has a functioning asylum system and, maybe, a charter-level protection comparable to a country like the United States?

3:35 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Manon Brassard

It's certainly a democratic country that has institutions that are fairly solid.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

How many IRB resources, such as hearing and staff hours, would be consumed annually by claims originating from Great Britain, for example?

3:35 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Manon Brassard

Not a whole lot. We have an inventory of 17 cases.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Okay, and what about people who arrive from Great Britain, transiting from Great Britain?

3:35 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Manon Brassard

We have stats about the country of alleged persecution, not necessarily a country of transit.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

You have no idea when somebody.... To use Great Britain as an example, if somebody arrives from there, you do not know whether that's where they arrived from; you just track their country of origin.

3:35 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Manon Brassard

We will know when we look at the case itself, but in data that we collect to do charts, we don't collect the route that they took to come here, whether they went through one, two or three countries before they arrived here. However, we will consider it when listening to the claim and making a decision on the well-foundedness of the claim.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

To your knowledge, would there have been a decent number of claimants who would have transited through Great Britain, as an example?

3:40 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Manon Brassard

I can come back and try.... We don't have statistics on that. It's very difficult to offer a number.

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Madam Chair, there's no interpretation.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

I was hearing it properly, but perhaps we'll check with the translators.

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

The interpretation is working now, Madam Chair.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Mr. Redekopp, please continue.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

I guess what I'm getting at is this: Would there be any reduction in casework from your side if a claimant, who transited from a country like Great Britain, was automatically not allowed to proceed with a claim, having come from Great Britain, a safe country?

3:40 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Manon Brassard

I think transit is not necessarily a sign of a yes-or-no decision in and of itself, so—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Can I stop you there?

3:40 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Redekopp Conservative Saskatoon West, SK

Isn't that how the U.S. safe third country agreement works?

3:40 p.m.

Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Manon Brassard

The safe third and a list are two different things. We have an agreement with the States—we the government—and we send people back.