Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 18th, 2025

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON]

Yes, that's very unfair.

I assume that's time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

That is time. Thank you so much, Mr. Menegakis.

Thank you, Mr. Weber.

Next we have Mr. Fragiskatos for five minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Weber, for being here.

Can you speak more about the current situation with respect to resources, specifically in terms of personnel and also in terms of training? You made a point regarding training that I think is an important point, but it's nuanced. This government has committed to hiring more or putting the funding forward so that more personnel can be hired at the CBSA, but there's an important point about training that you have on the record, and I think it's important for us to hear that again.

[Mark Weber]

Yes, thank you.

The 1,000 additional officers are absolutely welcome. They're a long time coming, and again, I thank the government for coming through with that.

With regard to the training facilities that we have now, there is one training centre in Rigaud, Quebec, and it could pump out just under 700 new recruits every year. Our attrition is around 600, so it's very difficult with only the one training centre to really get our numbers up as quickly as we need to. We have a secondary campus in Chilliwack. We've run some pilot projects through that, but it doesn't look like that is being used as it could. I know there was a location in Windsor that looked viable. However, despite what we bring forward—and we've tried to help the government and help the CBSA in locating places that they can use—it's just at Rigaud right now.

If we just stick with the current model, it's going to be a long, long time before we get up an additional 1,000 officers, so we really need to find somewhere to train them.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Okay. Thank you very much.

I don't see utility in dwelling on the past. However, it is important to understand where we've come from. Can you speak about previous cuts to the CBSA—I'm talking about years ago under the Harper government—the effect that those had on the CBSA and the challenges that those posed for border security in general—as a lesson learned, perhaps?

[Mark Weber]

Yes, that was back during the DRAP, I would say, in 2013-14. It was very difficult. Again, a lot of frontline positions were lost. I believe around 1,200 total positions were lost during that period, and you know, we haven't really recovered from that.

Those numbers stayed pretty much at what they were cut to for many years afterwards, and of course, we've gotten busier. We've seen the influx of refugee claimants. We did not have Roxham Road. We didn't really have the inland offices that we have now. We have immigration holding centres now, too, that have to be staffed. So, our needs have gotten greater, and our numbers have not come back up from those years when we got cut. It's been extremely difficult, so the 1,000 are very welcome.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Now I have something more concrete.

We are looking at Bill C-12. What are two or three recommendations that you have for this committee, based on your understanding of Bill C-12?

[Mark Weber]

Again, review one-touch. Start getting those interviews going, and start doing the screening before you're allowing people into the country. Allow us to use our skill and expertise to gather the intel, to find the people smugglers and to look for those indicators of coaching. That's what we used to do. I'd really like to see us get back to that.

Overarching, I think, whatever is applied from Bill C-12, we need to make sure that the technology that's applied is used to help the human being who is having the interaction with the person who is coming into Canada, rather than allowing people to simply self-declare and hoping that at some point they will self-declare that they're here for no good.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

With regard to the point about one-touch, I understand everything you've shared so far, but there are other democracies that are using this system. Can you speak to that and how that compares with Canada?

[Mark Weber]

I can't, no. I'm not sure exactly how their systems work. I know there's technology that's used in other countries. I mean, I've flown into the U.S. You see the biometrics and such in certain aspects. They have more in place than we do, but when I go, for example, to the United States, one of the things I do see is officers interacting with and speaking to travellers as they come through. We've almost completely gotten rid of that at the CBSA. That's partly due to staffing, but it's also partly due to focus. We've become really focused on facilitation and an attitude of, “Oh, well, it's fine; they self-declared at the PIK machine.”

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

For the purposes of the record, I'll just note to colleagues that it's the European Union and specifically Germany that's noted that it is using systems quite similar to this. This is for our understanding as a committee, and I just referred that to the analysts as well.

I'm all through, Madam Chair. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

That's time. Thank you.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Representatives of migrant advocacy organizations on both sides of the border have said that, as of February 2026, the influx of migrants could be much greater, because of American policies regarding Haitian visas, among other things.

Are you ready for that? Would Bill C‑12 help you be ready? Would officers have more powers? Some say the current version of Bill C‑12 wouldn't stand up in court, which means the government could end up in court before the legislation was even implemented.

What would that mean for you in terms of the anticipated February influx?

I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I have only two and a half minutes.

[Mark Weber]

Hopefully that does not happen.

In terms of personnel, again, there's no way we're going to get 1,000 new officers trained, ready and in place by February. It's going to be all hands on deck, a lot of overtime and a difficult situation once again. Again, that speaks to the difficult position the CBSA is in with their current staffing levels, when you look at systems like one-touch and something like what you're describing, what's happened at Roxham Road and the numbers that we're dealing with with the staff that we have. From the outside, to someone who is less concerned with security, you could see why a system like one-touch is very attractive.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Do you have ties with the American border officers' union or with your U.S. counterparts?

[Mark Weber]

No, we don't, not in terms of the specifics of how they do their jobs.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

What you're saying is that there are no discussions on what this would involve.

Some say smugglers are operating on both sides of the border. It's not just people coming to Canada; there are people going to the U.S. also. That said, the 14‑day rule applies to both countries. You might have heard this too, but apparently, smugglers are now offering package deals. They will help people cross the border, for example, and then hide them somewhere for 14 days.

Have you caught anyone doing that? That would be impossible for you to do, since you don't have the authority to patrol the border, right?

[Mark Weber]

Again, yes, once they're past the border, the RCMP deals with that. We're not given the authority to do any of that work whatsoever.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It's important for committee members and analysts to hear this again: If the hours of service at ports of entry were increased and border services officers were allowed to cross the border, logically that would completely change response times.

I'd like to hear you again on that, because I have only 30 seconds left.

[Mark Weber]

It would be instant. It would be welcome. Again, we're tooled and trained. We have the legal authority. We and the RCMP are the only two agencies that have full legal authority under IRPA and the Customs Act. I've not yet heard an argument that makes sense to me as to why we don't do this work with them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

I just want to make sure that everybody is okay with this. We're going to finish this round, and then I think we'll end this session. Mr. Weber has been very kind to be in the hot seat solely for about an hour.

Next, we have Mr. Redekopp for five minutes, and then we're going to go to Ms. Sidhu for five minutes.

Go ahead, Mr. Redekopp.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Weber, you just said something quite interesting. You were referring to one-touch, and you said that if one is not concerned about security, it's a great system, or something to that effect. What exactly are you referring to there? Are you referring to a specific person?

[Mark Weber]

No, it's not a specific person. I'm talking about the culture at the CBSA. Over the years, having to deal with the level of understaffing that it has, I believe it has organizationally become kind of lazy. That is no longer really the focus. How do we keep this ship afloat, given what we have? I think that's the mentality.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

To paraphrase, then, you're saying that, from your perspective, the culture that exists at CBSA—and I assume you're speaking of management culture there—is not focused primarily on security. Basically, the agency whose job, whose sole purpose in life is to keep our borders secure is not overly concerned about security. Is that what you're saying?

[Mark Weber]

I think that can be a challenge, yes. Over time, the focus has become more about facilitation. There are excellent managers I speak with who contact the union about concerns that they have and who would love to get back to doing the kinds of interviews and interdiction that they used to do, but realistically.... They tell me, “Who am I sending to do that?”