Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 18th, 2025

[Mark Weber]

My belief aside, I'm here to provide testimony in the hope that the focus now switches back to security over facilitation.

Technology is absolutely useful. We're not dinosaurs. We realize that there's a place for that, but again, the technology that we see the CBSA putting in place is all about self-declaration. It's about the traveller. It's about the refugee claimants doing everything on their own because we simply don't have the staff to do the proper interviews and do what we did previously. We need to see that stop.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

The government has consistently said that the United States is a safe third country. From your perspective, would you agree with that assessment?

[Mark Weber]

That is worth monitoring closely as time goes on.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Do you think that other western democracies could also be considered safe third countries, such as European countries and places like that?

[Mark Weber]

Again, it's not something that CIU has analyzed or put any research into.

If you're asking me as Mark Weber, I would say, most likely, yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you so much.

Thank you, Mr. Weber.

Thank you, Mr. Redekopp.

Our next person for six minutes is Ms. Sodhi, please.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Weber and Ms. Douglas, for being here today.

My first question is for you, Mr. Weber.

The federal government recently announced the hiring of 1,000 additional CBSA officers, which you mentioned in your opening statement, as well as 1,000 additional RCMP officers, with funding allocated for all purposes—hiring, training and deployment. How do you think this initiative will support the work that your members do on the front lines, and how will these additional officers improve the integrity of our immigration system?

[Mark Weber]

A thousand is a great start. We estimate that we're short between 2,000 and 3,000, but again, you have to start somewhere. You have to start training them somewhere. Our training program is 18 weeks, with essentially a one-year apprenticeship to be a full FB-03 BSO. That's a lot of work to get those numbers up.

We have concerns around our facilities and how many people we could train per year, given that attrition is about 600. We could train a maximum of just under 700 per year, so we're looking at having that added as well.

We need the facilities to be able to train people to get those numbers up, but the 1,000 is absolutely welcome and will be a tremendous help, yes.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you for your answer.

Bill C-12 will enact legislative changes that would allow CBSA to better respond to the needs and pressures of the asylum system. Are you able to outline what tools this legislation would unlock for officers in the field and how these tools will help stabilize and secure the asylum system?

[Mark Weber]

I know there are curbs on when claims can be made, and greater information sharing. Again, the devil is really in the details. We don't know specifically what information is going to be shared. Is it information that's useful for us? What are we getting from IRCC? What is being provided by the RCMP and back and forth? None of that has been worked out yet, so it's really hard to answer that in terms of the information.

On the additional staff, if they're allocated properly to the front line and focused on security, that will absolutely be a big help, yes.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Okay, perfect.

You've also stated that, with the introduction of this legislation, the federal government is highlighting “its willingness to tackle border issues head-on.” What specific border challenges were you referring to when you said that, and how does Bill C-12 help to address some of these challenges or issues?

[Mark Weber]

The additional resources in terms of staff, the additional 1,000 officers, are really what I was referring to.

Again, though, I'm here because I need the CBSA, as much as the Government of Canada, to hear and understand that we need to get our focus back on interdiction. It's been entirely about facilitation for far too long. We see self-declaration, with the machines that were described earlier, at our airports. We see plans for that at land borders. We seem to have a system where we're waiting for people who are here for ill intent to declare to us voluntarily that they are here for ill intent. We're still waiting. That's never happened, and it never will.

Most travellers are here legitimately. Most claimants are here legitimately. Our job is to find the ones who aren't, and without the interaction with the traveller or the claimant, we're simply not able to do that. We want to see us get back to that.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Okay. This is my last question for you. In addition to the measures in Bill C-12, are there any further resources, training programs or procedural improvements you would recommend to strengthen border security while supporting fair and consistent outcomes for asylum claimants?

[Mark Weber]

Yes, absolutely. Again, the initial interaction with the person coming in is key. That helps in both ways. It helps identify legitimate claims, and it helps identify concerns. It helps build those files so that when it's dealt with later, it is dealt with appropriately. That's currently missing.

Again, on the additional people, if the 1,000 are allocated properly, it will help us do that and hopefully get away from that kind of automated self-service system where, again, we're seeing about 10% who never even follow up, who are in the country. We assume it's not a legitimate claim if they're not following up as they should. That's not necessarily even so. It's just that 10% essentially disappear into Canada somewhere. We don't know where.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Weber.

I have no further questions, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

All right.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for joining us.

Unfortunately, I can direct my questions only to Mr. Weber, because of the connection issues we're having.

Mr. Weber, your union represents the officers on the front line who process claims. There are usually a lot of claims to process.

I have a very broad question to ask you. If the current version of Bill C‑12 was passed, would it make it easier or harder for the officers you represent to do their job?

[Mark Weber]

Again, if it's applied properly, I think it could be helpful. There's hope for it, yes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Given the new requirements and powers described in the bill, is it realistic to think the bill could be implemented with the current staff level?

[Mark Weber]

That's difficult in every mode and across the board. We talk about additional facilities to inspect exports. We have to get those facilities built. We have to get the people in place. We can't really do that now.

Again, with the focus on exports, there is a concern—and I hear it from our members—that a lot of this is really focused on hopeful tariff relief. We were trying to show that we're focusing on exports to hopefully get a break, in terms of what's going on in the current regime in the United States. We've tried that. I don't know that there's any hope that any kind of appeasement is going to help.

Really, we're here to keep Canadians safe. Our focus still has to be on imports. Right now, we're able to force importers to build the facilities to do exams, such as in rail, and we simply don't do it, even though we're able to. When we see adding the ability to force building facilities to inspect exports.... If we can do it for imports, but we're not doing it, then are we going to do it for exports?

We really need to focus on keeping Canadians safe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

The media have often reported that one of your demands is that the border service officers be allowed to patrol the areas between border crossings. Is there something in Bill C‑12 that would help in that sense?

[Mark Weber]

No, we don't. We see expanded powers for the Coast Guard to do that.

Again, if it has to do with IRPA or the Customs Act, are we going to be involved in that? Right now, as far as we can see, the answer is no. Between ports of entry, we don't do that at all. It's our mandate. CBSA has just decided they're going to allow the RCMP to do it. The RCMP isn't overstaffed either. We're talking about thousands of kilometres where we already have officers sitting at the border, who have the full, legal mandate to do that work.

If I work at a port of entry and see someone crossing a minute down the road, I am not allowed to interdict, even though I have a legal authority to do that. I have to call the RCMP, who may say that they can't send anyone or that someone could be there in three hours. That's not an acceptable answer.

We have the mandate, the legal authority, to do it. We want to do it. We're trained to do it. We have the equipment. We're tooled. We have the vehicles. We have everything in place to do it, and we're told not to. For a minute, try to imagine what that does to the morale of our people working at the border.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Could the government cite a lack of training to justify its decision not to grant you this power? Would the border officers be trained anyway to patrol the border?

[Mark Weber]

We're ready to go—tooled and trained. We have absolutely everything available to do it tomorrow, if the will were there, but it's just not, somehow.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Why is the government not allowing the border service officers to do that, do you think? Has it given a reason for that decision?