Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2025

[Anita Stellinga]

It's interesting. I was just at Pier 21 in Halifax a couple of weeks ago, and I was looking at all the historical times when Canada has embraced and accepted newcomers and refugees from all across the world. People were fleeing their country for different reasons, such as persecution, war and trauma. They came here and they settled. That exhibit talks about the hardships of people, but it also talks about the contributions they've made. Despite the hard times and maybe not having the language skills, they built up communities across Canada that reflect the symbolism of Canada, which is to build better pathways for people and for everyone to achieve their full potential.

Those stories are very much alive, whether they're in Little Italy, Little India, Little Poland, Little Portugal, across the city or in Chinatown. Those are all important reminders of the contributions that newcomers have made to our country. We see that very much unfolding through people walking through the doors of organizations like ours.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Certainly. I'm happy you spoke about that. I think we need to talk about that more in our country, and to remind ourselves that our grandparents and great-grandparents migrated, oftentimes, from other places, and didn't speak English or French. They learned it. Their children learned it, and they speak it today.

I'm going to shift to Mr. Lam.

You spoke about the Hong Kong pathway program, and I'm happy you brought that up. My understanding is that many people in Canada today paid for their file to be considered and evaluated. However, there are now very long wait times.

I want to know, first off, whether that is correct.

Secondly, do you think we have a moral obligation to make sure those wait times are not unusually long, given that people have already made payments into that system?

[Alfred Lam]

Madam Chair, if I may, I'd like to first respond quickly to say that I'm deeply troubled by how, when we talk about the issue of refugees, the first topic of conversation is terrorism. Empirically, there is no evidence, globally or in Canada, that refugees are a source of terrorism entering the country. This is part of the negative narrative we need to get rid of.

Now, with regard to the Hong Kong pathway situation, I believe Canada has a moral obligation. When you extend an invitation as a legitimate pathway towards permanent residency, there needs to be a reasonable process and transparent time of waiting. Right now, the difficulty is this: Not only are the wait times long, but also we don't know—

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

I'm so sorry, Mr. Lam, but that is way over time.

Thank you, Mr. Lam and Mr. Zuberi.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to continue on the same topic, because I was a fairly strong advocate for permanent residence pathways for Hong Kong residents. I think that people are currently facing situations of intense anxiety and stress. Some have even had dark thoughts because wait times have not been met according to what this government promised.

Mr. Lam, I'd like you to talk about what people are going through right now.

Why is the government being allowed to change the rules midway through the process?

[Alfred Lam]

Madam Chair, I will add to my earlier remarks and say that part of the struggle is the uncertainty.

You have a lot of people who come in through the Hong Kong pathway. They are in the prime time of their lives in terms of career development and family development. When they are stuck in a situation where they don't know whether they are going to be in this queue waiting for three, five or 10 or more years, it makes for a very stressful situation that has created tremendous pressures within families. We have met with clients whose stress over this process has resulted in the family breaking apart. We have seen many people in this situation with tremendous professional skills, who decided to leave Canada and seek residency elsewhere. Those are some of the issues we are seeing.

I think one of the most important elements missing right now in the system is a sense of transparency. If I'm in a queue waiting, I want to know how long I am going to wait. I need to know whether there is a reasonable wait time so I can plan my life. If Canada is not the place where I can reasonably expect to start building my future within a reasonable time frame, I am leaving. People are leaving in droves.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.

Thank you, Mr. Lam.

Next, we'll go for five minutes to Mr. Ma.

[Michael Ma, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

For my first question, I will continue with Mr. Lam.

In your discussions about transparency, regularization and so forth, overall, what would your recommendation be for this committee to clear the Hong Kong pathway backlog?

[Alfred Lam]

Madam Chair, one way to quickly clear this backlog is to offer some sort of one-time regularization opportunity to people who have already submitted applications and had their applications go through an initial round of screening. Many are already employed in Canada. We should recognize that, somewhere along the line, we messed up. We have created a system that is more convoluted than our administrative mechanisms can handle. For people waiting in this backlog, part of what they need to hear is an acknowledgement that, yes, the system is broken and there are things we're trying to do to fix it.

These are some of the considerations.

At this point, there's a prevailing sense of hopelessness, because people don't know. Some people have decided to leave. Others, because of political pressures from the situation in Hong Kong, don't have that option. They are forever stuck with temporary residency status during a time in their lives when they have the potential to make a tremendous professional contribution to Canada.

[Michael Ma, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

My next question is for Mr. Thomas.

You highlighted security checks as a number one priority. My understanding is that, for part of that process, the government outsources to local security firms to provide those security checks and so forth.

What can you recommend that this committee do to improve the accuracy in the security checks that we conduct for immigration purposes?

[David Thomas]

It varies from country to country. Some countries give us very reliable background checks, and we're very happy with those. Other countries are not so reliable. In fact, there are a number of quasi-failed states around the world that we still receive immigrants from. We're always worried about being labelled as racist or discriminatory by identifying certain people from certain parts of the world for extra scrutiny, but, again, as I said, I don't think that we should be ashamed of that. We have a right to know people's backgrounds and to be satisfied that they're not a bad person coming into our country.

I would discourage outsourcing as much as possible and dedicate as many resources as we need to liaise with local law enforcement or other security authorities in those other countries where we're looking for background checks, to take the time and not to feel bad about that. I think we owe it to other Canadians who are already here.

[Michael Ma, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

On a slightly different topic, in an article, you indicated that 35 years ago international students were restricted and forbidden from working in Canada.

Do you think today that we should return to this policy, so that the international student pool of labour has less effect on domestic job situations?

[David Thomas]

Well, as I said in that article, 30 years ago we had about 35,000 foreign students a year in the country. It was a very low number, and they generally came here with enough resources to support themselves.

What's happened through this long evolution of marketing to foreign students—and it's a big, big business—is that more and more people are coming to Canada who don't have the financial resources to support themselves through their education period. By necessity, they have to go out there and take on these jobs. Often, they're not even going to class. They go out there and earn money to earn their keep and often to pay back loans they've taken in their home country to finance this whole enterprise, of course with the goal of immigration.

I think if we cut out the ability to work or limited it, we'd see a natural big drop-off in student visa applications that would take a lot of strain off health care and housing at the same time.

[Michael Ma, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

In order to avoid repeating the mess we've seen, do you think the international student study permit should be tied to our labour market needs?

[David Thomas]

To be honest, I think that might be a bit too complicated. I think the labour market opinions should really be focused on high-skilled jobs, not on working at Tim Hortons and that sort of thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you so much, Mr. Thomas.

Thank you, Mr. Ma.

To finish off, we have five minutes with Ms. Sodhi.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Ms. Stellinga, it's always nice to have you from Mississauga to Ottawa to discuss such important issues.

My first question is as follows. In budget 2025, we announced a new $97-million foreign credential recognition action fund. This investment will improve fairness, transparency and speed in recognizing foreign credential skills for skilled immigrants coming into Canada and in Canada.

Can you tell us how your organization and the newcomers COSTI works with will benefit from this investment?

[Anita Stellinga]

We think that's really great news, and we would like to see that expanded to other sectors as well. Focusing on construction and health care is a really great start, and that is what we see from newcomers coming through our doors, that they are skilled professionals and skilled tradespeople who are bringing their experiences and their knowledge to our country. Many newcomers struggle with finding jobs or having their skills or their credentials recognized effectively and in a timely manner.

We're hopeful that this fund will alleviate that pressure. It will expedite that and bring them into our labour market. Those sectors are the gaps that we're facing right now, and those are really important skill sets that we can benefit from and leverage, so we think that's a really great opportunity for the clients we see coming through our doors.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you for your answer. I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Can you provide an explanation to this committee of how, in your view, the assisted integration of newcomers into the economy through the foreign credential recognition program has positive effects on the Canadian economy as a whole?

I know you mentioned the labour market, but if you can, touch on the entire Canadian economy a bit.

[Anita Stellinga]

When people come here, they want a better life. They want to be safe. They want to contribute. They want a job. They want to find housing. They want to give back to the community. They want their children to be educated and to give back and do the same.

The sooner we can integrate them and the sooner we can provide them with those supports, the better and sooner they will be able to get jobs and be able to contribute to the economy. We know they will be more successful in terms of integration, belonging in the community and in our neighbourhoods. It has impacts on the purchasing power of newcomers in our economy and the tax benefits that we would see from that. It shifts away from a poverty strategy towards a strategy that's focused on skills and economic outcomes that benefit all of our communities. It is a full-circle approach, and we think it's tremendously important.

There's a skill gap as well in terms of the construction trades, the skilled trades. That's really helpful for us in terms of the difference that we want to make in the trades and in construction.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

As we know, and as we've heard from you too, the foreign credential recognition program is a step in the right direction.

I'd like to know a little more. What recommendations do you have for this committee in terms of how the federal government can continue to support the integration of newcomers into communities across Canada? What more can we do?

[Anita Stellinga]

There were a couple of things that I noted in my remarks around this. We are focusing on economic immigrants coming into the country, but we are also making some assumptions that, perhaps, they're coming in with a lower complexity of needs. If we recognize them as families that are coming in.... Their partners may have needs. Their children may have needs in terms of supports, so we want to be sure that they are given those supports and that they're given early access to supports.

We have some concern about the eligibility for economic immigrants coming into the country in terms of what they will be able to access from a settlement perspective. We want to make sure that there aren't limitations for them, because that limits faster integration into our community. That's one.

The other piece is our concern around refugee shelter supports. If that fund, the interim housing assistance program, does not continue beyond March 27, the issue is that we will still have asylum seekers, even though they will be in reduced numbers. The question is where they will be sheltered and where they will be supported.

We know through our outcomes and through the work that we do with them that this is not a target population for the general shelter system. They have a different complexity of needs, and the sooner we can support them with those important interventions early on, the better they will be able to be successful, to build pathways for faster integration into our communities.

I would say that those two are really important for the drivers of our immigration policy and our economic outcomes.

[Amandeep Sodhi, Liberal, Brampton Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you so much, Ms. Stellinga.

Thank you so much, Ms. Sodhi.

That will conclude the first hour of our testimony today. I want to thank all of the witnesses for their contribution and their testimony today. It was excellent.

I'm now going to suspend so that we can take five minutes and switch over to the second panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Welcome back to our second panel for today's citizenship and immigration meeting.

I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of our new witnesses on the second panel.

For those of you who are on Zoom—we have two witnesses on Zoom today—please make sure that you click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking.

As well, at the bottom of your screen you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor, English or French. For those in the room, and we do have one witness in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

To all, please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. I'll also remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would now like to formally welcome our witnesses for the second panel.

From Windsor, we have Nicole Guthrie, barrister and solicitor with Legal Assistance of Windsor. She is joining us by video conference.

From the National Citizens Coalition, we have Alexander Brown, director.

From Constructions Proco Inc., we have Jean-Denis Toupin, engineer.

Welcome, everyone, to our second panel.

Each one of you will have up to five minutes for opening remarks, after which we will proceed with two rounds of questions.

I'm going to begin by inviting Ms. Guthrie to give us opening remarks for five minutes.