Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2025

[Nicole Guthrie]

There should be a program to bring these people into status.

As I said before, there are a lot of racialized women who end up coming to Canada with the expectation and belief that their family will join them eventually if they obey the rules. When these applicants are refused or denied, a lot of times it's because of employer activities. They've been abused, the employer refuses to sign documents, they cannot meet the language requirement, or other uncertainties are created after they entered Canada under the program.

I suggest that there should be an amnesty that allows these applicants—these vulnerable women who are here by themselves without family support, or any kind of support—to apply for and receive permanent residency.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you, Ms. Guthrie.

Thank you, Ms. Zahid.

Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Toupin, you said in your opening remarks that the loss of temporary foreign workers also causes job losses for Canadians and Quebeckers.

Can you tell us more about that?

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

Yes, temporary foreign workers employed as welders make up 45% of our production capacity. The same goes for a lot of other employers in our region and in other regions of Quebec.

I have 500 employees. If I lose half of my production capacity, what do I do with the draftspeople, project managers, head office people and metal structure installers?

Losing workers in a specific trade, like welders, in our case, necessarily means shutting down shifts or plants. Essentially, the outcome is other job losses.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You just talked about productivity losses. In your company, lost productivity necessarily has an impact further down the line.

Is that right?

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

Yes. The federal government talks about the importance of the construction sector, but the manufacturing sector is the one that supplies construction materials to work sites in Canada and Quebec. Unfortunately, that was overlooked.

The manufacturing sector makes the metal frames and the steel delivered to construction sites. Right now, that's what we're no longer able to produce. There are some great projects out there, like military infrastructure, ports and hydroelectric plants, but we can't manufacture the steel structures for them.

The worst part is that we're now competing with foreign countries. The steel arriving in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean has been manufactured by temporary foreign workers in other countries, like Turkey or the United Arab Emirates.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So much for the working conditions of employees in the United Arab Emirates.

Some people seem concerned about the working conditions of temporary foreign workers.

Can you tell us how your temporary foreign workers are doing?

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

Our temporary foreign workers are unionized, and they earn from $25 to $38 an hour. Their salaries are generally above the median salary, because the limit for a low-wage position is the median salary plus 20%. They're happy. Their families came with them, and their spouses often work in other sectors.

I invite you to come to our regions. I think the situation there is a far cry from what other witnesses may have experienced elsewhere in the country. That's why we want to make it clear that a single rule shouldn't apply from coast to coast to coast. The rules need to be regionalized, because conditions are very different from one region to another.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You said that the effects of the labour shortage and the low unemployment rate weren't limited to Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean. You also represent Alliage 02, a group of companies.

Have you spoken with other people outside the region?

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

Yes, we have. The same conditions present in our region also exist in other regions around Quebec's two large urban centres: Montreal and its surrounding area and the Quebec City region. One example is the Chaudière-Appalaches region.

We're having a hard time attracting workers. A lot of young people are pursuing careers that require a university or college education. They're less attracted to more traditional trades, like welding or machining. However, those are the trades we need.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

So you're saying that Ottawa's one-size-fits-all solutions aren't working and that each region's specific features need to be taken into account.

You said that you've invested in automation and robotics.

Are there currently any technological limits to contend with?

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

In the past few years, we've purchased the largest equipment possible to manufacture parts robotically. They're made in Germany. However, because the parts we make are very large and customized, only about 20% to 25% of them are suitable for automated machinery.

Equipment currently available on the world market can't produce most of the parts that we manufacture. The technology isn't there yet.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

How do you see the future if these measures aren't dialled back to what they used to be? I'm specifically thinking of the 20% measure.

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

We'll have to reduce our sales by at least a third and close one of our two plants.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Are you considering relocating one of your plants abroad?

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

We're in discussions right now to try to have some of our production manufactured abroad so that we can keep delivering our products to our construction sites.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

What construction sites are you currently working on in Quebec and Canada?

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

Right now we're involved in a lot of bridge construction projects led by Quebec's Ministère des Transports et de la Mobilité durable, as well as projects at aluminum plants, in the battery sector and for many mines, including rare earth mines, just about everywhere, from Nunavut to Quebec.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I'm going to move a motion, but first, I'll give you 20 seconds to say something to the committee.

[Jean-Denis Toupin]

I'd really like to see a review of the measures implemented in November 2024 that takes account of what's happening in our regions. It's a far cry from what some of the other witnesses have described to this committee.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Toupin.

Thank you to the witnesses for their testimony.

Madam Chair, I'm going to take the rest of my time to move a motion. Since it is related to our current study, it can be debated right now.

I'll read it to you. The interpreters have received it already.

Given that the committee is currently studying the Canadian immigration system, it is proposed that an additional meeting on “Operation Citizenship”, a bureaucratic initiative aimed at expediting the processing of citizenship applications in the months preceding the 1995 referendum, be held on December 9, 2025; that, for the purposes of this meeting, the former Prime Minister of Canada, Jean Chrétien, the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration at the time, Sergio Marchi, as well as the Deputy Minister at the time, Peter Harder, be invited; that this meeting last two hours; and that the committee report its findings to the House.

I will distribute the text of the motion to committee members.

Now, I'll explain why I'm proposing it. I know that I'm the only separatist on the committee and that I'm surrounded by federalists. However, a story made the front pages of the Journal de Montréal newspaper last week and was subsequently picked up by other media. The story had to do with statements made by the former Minister of Citizenship and Immigration, Sergio Marchi, in an interview he gave to the Journal de Montréal last week. He said that he recalled Jean Chrétien telling him that he was aware that there were backlogs in citizenship applications, but that he should do his best to move them along because the referendum was approaching and people wanted to vote, and that it was clear he was encouraging this.

In addition, Sergio Marchi claimed that this initiative had an impact on the very close vote. Once again, he was quoted as saying that it made a difference and that it was in Canada's favour but that he didn't know the extent of the impact and that nobody really knows.

I'm appealing to your sense of duty. The committee is currently conducting a study on the immigration process. We heard from a former minister of citizenship and immigration himself that the immigration system was used for political purposes in order to interfere in a referendum election in Quebec. If we don't want this to happen again, we need to shed light on what happened in 1995.

I am aware that this motion seems to have come out of nowhere and that you were not expecting it, but I felt that I had to propose it. I have a feeling that I may be the only one voting in favour of this motion. However, I can assure you that this issue is all over the news across Quebec. It's quite unprecedented for a former minister of citizenship and immigration to say that the prime minister at the time told him to fast-track immigration applications in order to interfere in an election. I think we need to hear some explanations from these individuals. Contacting them should not be too difficult, since we often see them in the public square.

I believe we should invite Mr. Marchi, the individual who made the comments to the Journal de Montréal. Of course, we should also invite Mr. Chrétien and Mr. Harder, the deputy minister appointed by Jean Chrétien, who was responsible for merging the immigration and citizenship departments into one. He was deputy minister of this department until November 1995, coincidentally. Mr. Harder was also one of the first senators appointed by Mr. Trudeau in the first round of appointments in 2016.

In short, that is the motion I am proposing, Madam Chair. I believe that we can vote on it fairly quickly. I have no idea what the outcome of the vote will be. If we want to continue hearing from the witnesses, we might be able to do so if we vote quickly. Otherwise, I believe that the floor is open.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

Thank you.

I want to make sure that everybody has a copy of the motion. Looking around the table, it looks like they do.

I have Mr. Fragiskatos, followed by Ms. Zahid.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London Centre, ON]

Since this is a motion that we weren't aware of—I'm not sure about the Conservatives—we haven't had a chance to look at it in any detail. I know I speak for my side when I say that.

I wonder if we could have a couple of minutes. Could we suspend the meeting?

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

I'm okay with that. We will suspend for two minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Julie Dzerowicz]

I call the meeting back to order.

I have Salma and Mr. Fragiskatos, and then anyone who wants to be on the list.

Since it looks like there's going to be a discussion, should we release all of the witnesses? Do I have permission to release the witnesses, or do people think we will finish this in the next few minutes?