Evidence of meeting #30 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was refugees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Do you think the government should be in the business of providing accommodations, housing for example, to asylum seekers, refugees and newcomers?
Emeritus Professor of Economics, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
My commentary on this controversy continuing here, which was going on before, with the asylum seekers is that the more benefits we offer, the more we will have asylum seekers who may or may not have legitimate claims but are getting benefits from doing so.
Conservative
Emeritus Professor of Economics, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
A famous economist, Milton Friedman, a colleague of mine when I was teaching in Chicago, said it's incompatible to have a welfare state and free immigration. In the last 10 years, we have been moving more and more towards free immigration. That prediction that it is impossible, we're paying for.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
Along those lines, sir, I don't know if you have heard, but the government ran into quite a bit of controversy because there were booking hotels and putting people in hotels across the country, just housing them there at exorbitant cost. Now, to get away from that controversy, they created a new program, and recently we found out that they gave the City of Ottawa $40 million to outright purchase a hotel so they can house these people, so they're not renting anymore. They house them now in a hotel that is owned by the City of Ottawa to house these people.
Yesterday, for example, I read an article about another $27.35 million that was given to the town of Pickering here in Ontario to do the same thing, to purchase a hotel there.
There's $40 million to Ottawa, and $27.35 million to Pickering. Those are only two locations that we know of where they've done that so far. They have been very reluctant to be transparent and give us a list of how many municipalities they have given money to.
What do you have to say about that, sir?
Emeritus Professor of Economics, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
More generally, it will all be said in a book that I'm writing, “I Cry for You, Canada”. I came in 1972, having a professorship with a tenure in the United States, because I love Canada and I love Vancouver. I'm now almost sorry for this country. I'm glad I'm 92.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON
I will close by saying this. Thank you for appearing before us today. I hope that when I am 92 years old, somebody will ask me to come and present here—if I am fortunate enough to get there. Thank you for your service to Canada as a member of Parliament. We appreciate your presence here today.
Emeritus Professor of Economics, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
You're welcome.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Professor Grubel.
Thank you, Mr. Menegakis.
Next, we have six minutes for Ms. Sodhi.
Liberal
Amandeep Sodhi Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I would like to ask Mr. Chevarie my first question.
In budget 2025, the federal government introduced a new initiative: Over the next two years, we will provide permanent status to 3,300 workers in rural areas who have already applied for permanent residence. Can you tell this committee how this measure will support rural economies, such as that of your riding, to ensure that businesses can keep running and growing opportunities for local communities?
Businessman and Owner, Gestions P. Chevarie inc.
On our end, we work in French because we are from Quebec. Quebec's laws for obtaining permanent residence are much more complicated, much more difficult. The French language is very difficult to learn for people who don't know it. However, in my business, the workers are Filipinos who don't speak French. They speak English and the language commonly used in their country. They've been attending French classes for three years, ever since they arrived on the islands.
For people like our workers, the program you're implementing requires much more time and French classes; it's not just a matter of applying for permanent residence. Today, we are running out of time because the programs have been halted, all the laws have been changed, and our workers have to go back home.
Businessman and Owner, Gestions P. Chevarie inc.
It may work elsewhere in Canada, but it's very difficult for Quebec because of the French language.
Liberal
Amandeep Sodhi Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Thank you for your answer.
Professor Grubel, I would like to go to you for just a second.
Recent data tells us that international student arrivals this year are down by 75%, that temporary worker arrivals are down by 71% and that asylum claims are down by 64%. These numbers are a result of policies that have been put in place by Canada's new government to reduce, stabilize and balance immigration levels across different programs.
From an economics perspective, can you tell us how this change will help bring stability and future long-term predictability to Canada's economy and labour market?
Emeritus Professor of Economics, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
We got ourselves into a mess. How we're going to get out of it is going to be very difficult.
I don't know what the right and optimal number is, but what we're doing here is the beginning of something that should take place every year. We need to ask both people who are employers who want more workers and those who understand that every time you bring a family of five from a Middle East country, they will put a burden on housing, hospitals and everything that government provides for free, and will impose a burden on the average Canadian, whom, in effect, we ask through our burden to subsidize the people who hire these workers. We need to have a discussion and to have a trade-off between these two benefits.
Liberal
Amandeep Sodhi Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Professor Grubel, you've also argued that Canada's housing affordability crisis is directly linked to immigration and that housing was stable at lower immigration levels. I know you mentioned a little bit about it in your previous answer.
Now that we have reduced the numbers and have done the consultations, do you believe that this is a step in the right direction for housing markets?
Emeritus Professor of Economics, Simon Fraser University, As an Individual
Of course. How could it not be? It will be very difficult to adjust. Once we're in the mud, it's very hard to get out. You won't get out overnight.
Let me tell you something. Politicians who are promising that they will change the affordability crisis are either lying or ignorant. If you look at the level of prices in Canada for the last 50 years, you will see that there has never been a decrease in the price level. The Bank of Canada aims for increasing prices 2% every year. The same thing will be.... Houses are unlikely to fall significantly. The only solution is more housing being built.
Liberal
Amandeep Sodhi Liberal Brampton Centre, ON
Perfect. Thank you for your answer.
Professor Mayrand, recently the federal government announced a new temporary public policy to facilitate short-term work permits to temporary workers already working in Quebec while they await permanent residence. Can you explain to this committee how the immigration system in Quebec differs from that in the rest of Canada? What recommendations do you have for Quebec's system on how it could be improved in collaboration with the Government of Canada?
Professor, Université de Sherbrooke, As an Individual
I think those types of temporary working permits could help make sure that refugees or refugee claimants have the opportunity to work while they are awaiting a decision. I believe, however, that the problem is mainly the delays. As other people have intervened at this committee, the delays are so long as they await their decision that they need to work. The delays are really, really long. This is the case in Quebec, and this is the case in the rest of Canada. Allowing temporary permits is good as a temporary measure, but I think the delays are at the core of the problems.
In terms of—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz
Thank you, Professor Mayrand.
I'm sorry. We're way over time.
Thank you, Ms. Sodhi.
Mr. Deschênes now has the floor for six minutes.
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I'm very pleased to hear the Îles de la Madeleine accent here at the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. I thank Mr. Chevarie for being here.
I want to talk about what has happened with temporary foreign workers. Yesterday, we learned from the economic statement that the number of temporary foreign workers in Canada has been reduced by 71% between early 2024 and today. However, we in the Bloc Québécois have always supported tightening temporary immigration, but we have insisted that this not be done haphazardly and that regional realities be taken into account. That is how we saw the Liberal government announce on March 13 that it would allow all temporary foreign workers in rural areas to renew their permits for one year, and that it would increase the quota from 10% to 15% for one year in rural areas for those who had remained at 10%.
Now, Mr. Chevarie, I want to hear your opinion on these measures, which were essentially intended to help you. Have they really helped you? Are they enabling your Tim Hortons restaurant in Cap‑aux‑Meules to continue to operate?
Businessman and Owner, Gestions P. Chevarie inc.
Thank you for your question.
The answer is no. We were very pleased on March 13 when the government gave us 12 more months to find a solution or to see if immigration rules would change, especially in rural areas.
However, what the government did not announce that same day was that families could not stay. So a worker who had been here for two or three years with his family was allowed to stay for an additional 12 months, as the government told us, but his family had to go back home. Of course, these people left everything behind to come work in Canada, to learn French, to help grow the economy, to contribute to society. Yet they are being told to leave with their families or to stay without them. That doesn't work. It doesn't make sense. These people won't do it because, from what I'm hearing from all the panellists, there are still human beings at the heart of this.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Mr. Chevarie, at your Tim Hortons, what percentage of your employees are temporary foreign workers?
Businessman and Owner, Gestions P. Chevarie inc.
Currently, 67% of them are temporary foreign workers with a closed or open permit.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
That was made possible thanks to the simplified processing.