Evidence of meeting #33 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Barutciski  Professor, York University, As an Individual
Stellinga  Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services
Jacques  Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel
Fortin  Professor, Department of Economics, Université du Québec à Montréal, As an Individual
Roulet  Director General, Carrefour le Moutier
Mukamana  Coordinator of Services for Newcomers, Carrefour le Moutier
Clinton  Publisher, TheAudit.ca

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 33 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format. I would like to make a few comments for the benefits of the witnesses and members.

There are just a few rules, as always. You have all memorized them by now. I'm going to do a test next time.

For this time, I will just remind you to please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those who are on Zoom, kindly click on the microphone icon to activate your microphone, and please mute yourself when you're not speaking. As well, you can also select the appropriate channel for interpretation, whether you would like it to be in English or in French. For those in the room—and we do have two of our guests in the room today—you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I want to remind all of the witnesses that the committee members may ask questions in either French or English. If you need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select the listening channel you will need to take full advantage of the time.

Mr. Joseph.

11 a.m.

Liberal

Natilien Joseph Liberal Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

There is no interpretation.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Okay. We will look into this. Thank you, Mr. Joseph.

Maybe while we're waiting, I'll just take a minute to warmly welcome Mr. Wade Chang, a new member of our committee.

It's a pleasure to have you here. I know that we had another member substitute while you were finishing off a report, so welcome.

Mr. Deschênes, are you getting the interpretation?

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

Madam Chair, I wasn't listening to the interpretation so I cannot say. I can try to listen.

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Mr. Joseph has informed me that it's working properly now. Excellent. We will continue.

I will just remind you, witnesses, that committee members may ask questions in either French or English. If you need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece. Select the listening channel you need in advance in order to take full advantage of the time allocated for questions and answers. Of course, please ensure that all of your comments are addressed through the chair.

Members, you are all superstars. I'm just going to remind you, though, to please raise your hand if you wish to speak. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best as we can. Please do not speak over each other. It's hard for our interpreters to translate, and it makes their job difficult.

I will do my best to let both witnesses and members know when they have one minute left. I want to thank you all in advance for your co-operation.

I will just remind everyone that we do have a vote at one o'clock. Once the bells ring, we'll at that point decide whether or not we want an extra 15 minutes before we go upstairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on April 27, 2026, the committee is commencing its study of the provincial distribution of asylum seekers in Canada.

Before I introduce the witness, we have to adopt a budget for the study and another budget at the same time.

The first budget is $28,250 for the study on asylum seekers, which begins today. Can I have someone move that we approve that?

Sameer Zuberi Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC

I so move.

(Motion agreed to)

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Mr. Deschênes, do you have any issues with the budget allocated for this study?

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

No, it's fine.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

For the second budget, it's $55,000 for the study on attracting and empowering global talent.

Who will move it?

Peter Fragiskatos Liberal London Centre, ON

I so move.

(Motion agreed to)

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Mr. Deschênes, is it okay?

Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC

Yes.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Okay.

Everyone has agreed. Thank you.

I would now like to get to the main reason for this meeting today and welcome our witnesses for our first hour.

As an individual, back by popular demand, we have Mr. Barutciski, who is a professor at York University. We also have Anita Stellinga, who is the chief executive officer of COSTI Immigrant Services.

Welcome to both of you. Thank you for coming in person. It's always nice to see people in person.

We are also very pleased to warmly welcome Steve Jacques, the commissioner of human services for Peel Region, who is joining us by video conference.

Up to five minutes will be given to each of you for your opening remarks, after which we will proceed to the rounds of questions. I'm going to start off with Mr. Barutciski for five minutes. We'll follow with Ms. Stellinga, and then we'll round it out with Mr. Jacques.

Mr. Barutciski, you have five minutes, and it starts now.

Michael Barutciski Professor, York University, As an Individual

Madam Chair, thank you for inviting me.

I spend my time analyzing immigration policies and laws, so I am very pleased to be here. I am impressed by the quality of the work done by the members of the three parties who are here. The very fact that you are studying the issue of the interprovincial distribution of asylum seekers is a positive sign.

The division of responsibilities has always been a complicated issue. I began working on this issue 33 years ago. I was part of a team of researchers funded by major American foundations. Here is the lesson I learned from that experience, which may be relevant to you: proposals from the academic sector focus on the demands of human rights advocates; they do not take into account political constraints or the limitations of government action. You are in the best position to determine what is realistic—or even necessary—because you know the voters in your ridings.

I continued to work on burden sharing when I was asked by the UNHCR to be a member of the independent commission on the Kosovo refugee crisis in 1999. The lesson I learned was that governments were ready to share the responsibilities, but human rights advocates would not accept involuntary transfers. They insisted on consent, and that led to even bigger problems.

Albanians from Kosovo started choosing the country they preferred in terms of socio-economic conditions, despite the ongoing crisis. They could have gone to neighbouring Albania, where NATO-built camps were waiting, empty, but they actually wanted to go to rich countries like Germany. The 5,000 who came here did so as their second or third choice. There were flights organized by the Canadian government that people simply did not show up for because they had better options.

The CBC/Radio-Canada correspondent on the ground didn’t understand that a bigger regional crisis was averted, thanks in part to neighbouring Greece, which accepted involuntary transfers when the chaotic frontline reception at the Kosovo border was destabilizing the whole region.

Regarding this concept of consent, two months ago, the committee asked the Director General of Asylum Policy at the department a simple question. He replied that the Canadian Charter guarantees that asylum seekers “have the right to live wherever they wish.” However, it's clear that he is mistaken. Read section 6 of the charter, which is unambiguous. The right to move or take up residence in any province is guaranteed only to citizens and permanent residents. As temporary residents, asylum seekers do not have this right.

It's astounding that this kind of misconception is circulating within the department. If you believe consent is required, in my view, there is no point in undertaking this study. Asylum seekers will simply head to major urban centres.

The next question to address is whether to proceed with transfers using a generalized system that applies to all asylum seekers, as in Germany. The alternative would be to have a system that applies only in emergency situations, such as the sea crossings currently affecting Greece or Italy, or the crossings at Roxham Road, which have disproportionately affected Quebec.

The next step would be to determine the distribution formula. For example, Italy has adopted a quota for municipalities with more than 1,000 residents.

Germany calculates according to tax revenues and population size for each of its federal states. I was in Germany 10 days ago. When a migrant claims asylum, a software algorithm automatically assigns a reception centre in a specific land. Berlin, for example, is supposed to get 5% of all asylum seekers this year.

To summarize, Canada could address the issue of provincial distribution of asylum seekers in a more equitable way if, firstly, responsibility sharing becomes mandatory; secondly, the distribution is part of the standard response—in other words, it applies to all asylum seekers—and thirdly, we establish a distribution formula that takes into account the socio-economic situation of the partners in the federation.

If you have any questions, I’d be happy to answer them during the question period.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Thank you, Professor Barutciski.

Next we have Ms. Stellinga for five minutes. Your five minutes start now.

Anita Stellinga Chief Executive Officer, COSTI Immigrant Services

Good morning, Madam Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you.

My name is Anita Stellinga. I'm the chief executive officer of COSTI Immigrant Services. For almost 75 years, COSTI has provided employment, education, settlement, housing, language, mental health and social supports to newcomers and their families across the greater Toronto area. We welcome this study because, in our view, the provincial distribution of asylum seekers is less a question of fairness among jurisdictions and more whether the system produces the right outcomes.

The test of any new approach is practical. Does it help people stabilize faster, move into housing sooner, enter the labour market more quickly and reduce avoidable pressure on shelters, health systems and municipalities? Yes, Ontario and Quebec continue to receive the largest shares of asylum claims in Canada. The issue is not simply where people first arrive. It is whether Canada has the reception, housing and settlement infrastructure to support people after they make a claim.

At COSTI, we see, every day, that housing instability is not a side issue in the asylum system. Housing is the hub of the settlement wheel, and around it are the elements that allow a person or family to move from survival to stability. Health care, education, language training, employment services, legal navigation, social connection and community—without these supports, housing is only a roof. That distinction matters because Canada should be aiming to not only locate and house asylum seekers, but to help people build a home.

A home is more than a physical address. It includes community, dignity, agency and belonging. The benefits of immigration—social cohesion, labour market participation and long-term contribution—depend on that connection to community. That is why we urge caution about models that distribute asylum seekers primarily by population share, fixed quotas or administrative allocation.

A formula may look fair on paper, but it does not tell us whether housing exists, whether employment pathways are realistic or whether a community is ready to welcome people well. Moving people without that foundation simply moves pressure around the country. Access to services, supports and pathways can vary, depending on where someone first arrives, where they are referred and which provincial or municipal systems they encounter. Communities differ in their labour markets, housing conditions, service networks and cultural connections. Newcomers should be able to consider those differences when deciding where to build their lives. Equity should not mean assigning people to places. Equity requires informed choices and reliable access to the supports that allow people to build a home, to contribute and to belong.

Many newcomers, understandably, navigate toward large urban centres, like Toronto and Montreal, because they assume that large cities offer more jobs, more services and a better chance of success. Sometimes they do, but large cities can also have high housing costs, stretched services and difficult labour markets. This study should not only ask where people land, but ask where people are able to stay, work, build community and set down roots. If newcomers can assess housing, employment, education, health navigation, language and community supports before choosing where to build their lives, they are more likely to make choices that last and have better outcomes. If they arrive, only to discover that supports are unavailable, housing is out of reach or jobs are harder to access than expected, then the system has not served them or the municipalities and the communities asked to welcome them.

Rather than creating a system that restricts movement, Canada should create one that coordinates funding, service navigation and outcomes across jurisdictions. In practical terms, that means a multi-year intergovernmental national asylum and housing strategy that codifies the respective roles and funding responsibilities of federal, provincial and municipal governments.

We need a single framework for reception and referral that is characterized by collaboration and coordination across all levels of government and that is supported by shared data infrastructure. The goal would not be to track people in order to control their movement. The goal would be to ensure continuity of support, to prevent duplication, to reduce service gaps, to avoid overwhelming local systems and to give newcomers reliable information about their options, which encourages geographic distribution.

A national system could help identify where housing pathways, services and community networks already exist and where additional capacity could be developed to make more communities realistic choices for settlement. It could also help governments and service providers measure outcomes across jurisdictions: time to housing, time to work authorization, time to employment, school enrolment, health navigation and connection to community.

In closing, COSTI recommends that the committee support a national asylum and housing model built on four principles—mobility, not restriction; informed choice, not administrative assignment; coordinated funding, not fragmented responses; and measurable outcomes, not crisis management.

COSTI stands ready to—

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

I'm sorry. You're well over time. Thank you for that. In the questions, we might be able to have you make your final points.

Mr. Jacques, it's now your turn. You have five minutes.

Steve Jacques Commissioner of Human Services, Region of Peel

Thank you very much, Madam Chair, vice-chairs and members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me here today.

My name is Steve Jacques. I'm the commissioner of human services in the region of Peel in Ontario, which encompasses three municipalities—the city of Brampton, the town of Caledon and the city of Mississauga. I'm here today to share Peel's response to the needs of homeless asylum claimants.

Peel reflects Canada's long-standing commitment to immigration. More than half our residents were born outside of Canada. We are home to Pearson International Airport, the country's primary gateway. As a result, Peel and the greater Toronto area receive a significant share of asylum claimants, many of whom arrive in need of immediate shelter, supports and help navigating complex systems.

Beginning in 2023, we saw an unprecedented surge in asylum claimants in need of homelessness support. By the fall, our shelter system was operating at nearly 400% capacity and nearing collapse. At the peak, nearly three-quarters of shelter residents were asylum claimants. Since then, Peel has supported 8,500 homeless asylum claimants. The surge occurred within an already strained system. Peel has more than 37,000 households on the affordable housing wait-list. Shelters were already full prior to this increase.

Since 2001 homelessness has risen 223%, with asylum claimants accounting for a significant portion of that growth. At the same time, affordability has worsened. It now takes the equivalent of three full-time minimum-wage jobs to afford the average rent in Peel. Many households remain priced out of home ownership.

While supports like the Canada-Ontario housing benefit are essential, our allocation is exhausted each year due to high demand. Additional funding of $2.1 million in 2023-24 helped approximately 180 asylum claimant households, but ongoing supports have not kept pace with need and no additional allocations for asylum claimants have been issued.

Despite these pressures, Peel has acted. As a municipality primarily funded through property tax and unable to run deficits, we are not designed to sustain a national asylum system, but between 2023 and by the end of 2026, Peel will have committed more than $13 million from local tax reserves to maintain services. Working with the federal government and community organizers, we established the Peel Reception Centre, one of the largest dedicated asylum claimant shelters in Canada. It provides wraparound supports that include settlement services, housing assistance, health services, legal aid, language training, and income and employment support, all focused on helping individuals transition to stable housing.

This model is working. With federal support through the interim housing assistance program, more than 60% of clients have moved into housing, and more than half have remained in the region of Peel. However, this work remains more difficult as mental health needs among asylum claimants are increasing, rental costs continue to rise, and affordable housing, especially shared housing, is extremely limited. At the same time, work permit delays limit employment opportunities for newcomers. Compounded, these pressures make it hard for municipalities to meet both operational demands and contractual obligations.

The evidence is clear: The current model places disproportionate operational and financial pressures on municipalities. That pressure is no longer sustainable. Therefore, we offer four recommendations for the committee's consideration.

First, supporting asylum claimants must be recognized as a coordinated national function with predictable, stable funding. Municipalities cannot continue to fund federal immigration responsibilities through local tax reserves.

Second, housing benefits must be integrated into the national housing strategy through a permanent allocation for asylum claimants. This is a structural need, not a temporary pressure.

Third, Canada needs a more balanced national hub-and-spoke system that distributes arrivals across the country based on labour markets, housing availability and community readiness. The funding should follow the claimant regardless of where they settle.

Fourth, until such a system exists, the federal government must invest in gateway communities, such as Peel, at levels that respect the scale and reality of the demand they are absorbing.

There is a growing gap between responsibility and resources. Canada is not overwhelmed by those seeking refuge. We are underinvested in the municipalities that support them every day. If we want an asylum system that is fair, effective and built to last, then closing the gap isn't optional; it's essential.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Thank you so much, Mr. Jacques.

Thanks, everyone, for your opening remarks.

Now, we are going to our rounds of questions. Our first round is six minutes for each member. Our first questioner is Mr. Menegakis.

Mr. Menegakis, you have six minutes.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for appearing before us today.

Mr. Barutciski, you recently wrote, “Foreigners who are unlawfully present in the country should always be treated in a humane manner, but they have to accept the consequences of their illegal actions.” Can you give some examples of immigration pathways commonly being abused?

11:20 a.m.

Professor, York University, As an Individual

Michael Barutciski

An effective and sustainable asylum policy always has to try to balance the humane treatment of asylum seekers and the legitimate interests of the state. What we've seen is that even just claiming asylum could arguably be seen as.... Even the previous minister admitted that some people who are here on different temporary statuses claim asylum just to stay longer. If someone has a student visa and has been here for a number of years, it does raise potential problems if asylum is the—

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Vincent Ho Conservative Richmond Hill South, ON

I have a point of order.

The video doesn't seem to be working. The camera has been pointed at you the whole time.

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Well, that's because I should be the centre of attention, always.

Voices

Oh, oh!

The Chair Liberal Julie Dzerowicz

Hold on. Let's check the video. I'm joking.

It was a joke, Mr. Deschênes.