Evidence of meeting #34 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was housing.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rosemary Bender  Director General, Social and Demographic Statistics, Statistics Canada
Marie Patry  Assistant Director, Aboriginal Data, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Bonnie Charron

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

I open the meeting of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development of Tuesday, February 6, 2007.

Committee members, you have the orders of the day in front of you. For the first hour, we'll have a report on aboriginal housing. Witnesses are from Statistics Canada. Then at 12 noon, we will be going in camera and finalizing the post-secondary education study and also reviewing some committee business.

The first order of the day is that today we have witnesses from Statistics Canada. We have Rosemary Bender, the director general of social and demographic statistics, and Marie Patry, assistant director, aboriginal data, social and aboriginal statistics division.

Welcome. I understand you are going to give us a presentation, so please begin. Thank you.

11:05 a.m.

Rosemary Bender Director General, Social and Demographic Statistics, Statistics Canada

Thank you and good morning, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank you for this invitation to appear before the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development. I'm pleased to present to you an overview of data that's available from Statistics Canada on aboriginal housing.

Before I begin, I have a note on the definitions of aboriginal populations, for there are various definitions available. The data presented to you are all based on the concept referred to as the aboriginal identity population. This is measured through a question that asks if a person is an aboriginal person, that is, North American Indian, Inuit, or Métis.

Statistics Canada has two main sources of data on aboriginal housing: the Census of Population and the Aboriginal Peoples Survey. There is far too much information available from these sources to present in the short time I have available. Rather, the objective this morning is to provide you with the main trends in the housing situation with regard to the aboriginal identity population, as well as illustrate some of the geographic and demographic characteristics attributable to the data.

Government and academic researchers examining aboriginal housing policies and programs extensively use these and other more detailed aboriginal data that are available from Statistics Canada. Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation also derive and publish a number of key housing measures, many of which are based on census data.

The following slides, which you have in front of you, are based on data from the 2001 census and the 2001 Aboriginal Peoples Survey. These will be updated in the coming year, starting next month, with the 2006 census population and dwelling count to be released March 13, with more detailed results on the aboriginal identity population to be available next January, 2008, and results from the Aboriginal Peoples Survey off-reserve in the fall of 2008. Updates for the on-reserve component of the Aboriginal Peoples Survey will be available progressively in the coming years as reserves participate in the survey.

Following an overview of the demographic situation of the aboriginal population, I will speak to four main housing variables available from the census and the Aboriginal Peoples Survey: condition of dwelling, number of rooms, tenure, and water contamination.

In 2001, there were just over one million aboriginal people, or 3.5% of the total population—and I apologize in advance for all the numbers that I will be throwing your way. You will find them all in your handouts. Two-thirds of aboriginal people, or 713,000, were North American Indian. Métis represented 29% of the aboriginal people with 306,000, and Inuit represented 4% with 48,000.

In 2005, Statistics Canada projected the aboriginal population to the year 2017. With a projected decline in fertility rates, their population growth is expected to slow down. Nevertheless, over the projected period it will still average two and a half times that of the non-aboriginal population. The Inuit population will grow the fastest, followed by the North American Indian and the Métis populations.

In 2001, the on-reserve population represented almost one-third of all aboriginal people. By 2017, the share of those on-reserve could rise to 40% if current trends in fertility, mortality, and migration continue.

Seven out of ten aboriginal persons live off-reserve, which leaves three in ten living on reserve. Twenty-nine per cent live in large cities, 23% in smaller cities, 14% live in rural areas, while 4% live in the Arctic.

As with all census information, this type of regional breakdown is available for each of the three aboriginal groups. For example, Métis have the highest percentage living in urban areas, at 68%, and Inuit the lowest, at 27%. This compares with the 80% of all Canadians who live in urban areas.

Half of the aboriginal identity population is under 25 years of age. Age is a key demographic characteristic in the context of family formation and the related new demand for housing, as well as in the context of planning for the needs of an older population.

With a higher fertility rate than the non-aboriginal population, the aboriginal populations are younger. For example, children under 15 years of age represent one-third of the aboriginal population; in contrast, they make up only one-fifth of the non-aboriginal population.

The number of aboriginal seniors is growing, but still remains relatively small. Seniors represent 4% of the aboriginal population, compared to 13% of the non-aboriginal.

I would now like to present you with some of the data available on aboriginal housing.

I will begin with the subject of overcrowding.

Overcrowding is defined as more than one person per room.

The housing situation depends to a large extent on where one lives, thus the aboriginal housing data are provided according to the following types of geographic areas: reserves, rural areas, the Arctic, small urban areas and census metropolitan areas.

Despite a small improvement between 1996 and 2001, the proportion of aboriginal people living in overcrowded dwellings remains quite high compared to the situation of non-aboriginal people, especially on reserves and in the Arctic.

Data on overcrowding are also available for the largest urban areas, and the results vary across the country.

For the aboriginal population, the percentage of the population living in overcrowded dwellings is substantially higher in the western cities. In particular, Winnipeg, Regina, Saskatoon and Edmonton have percentages 2 to 3.5 times that of the non-aboriginal population in these cities.

In contrast, for the central cities of Montreal, Ottawa-Gatineau and Toronto, the percentage of overcrowded dwellings for the aboriginal population is equal to or lower than that for the non-aboriginal population.

We can also examine these data for the first nation communities specifically.

For all first nation communities in Canada, 35% of dwellings are overcrowded. Among provinces, the highest incidences of overcrowding for first nation communities occur in the three Prairie Provinces, followed by Quebec.

Let us now turn to housing conditions. For Canada as a whole, dwellings in need of major repairs represent about 9% of all dwellings. From the census, we can see that this percentage is much higher for the aboriginal population living in each type of geographic area presented. In particular, the proportion living in reserves, at almost 40%, is very high. In addition, the data over two censuses also show that the percentage for the reserves and for the Arctic is increasing over time. The 2006 census will indicate to what extent this trend continues.

I will now talk about dwellings as such rather than about the number of persons per dwelling.

Across Canada, one in five aboriginal dwellings needs major repairs. Among provinces, the proportion is highest in New Brunswick, where more than one in four dwellings need major repairs. The percentages for the other provinces range from 18 to 25%, with Newfoundland and Labrador, Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia having proportions below the national average of 20% for aboriginal dwellings.

If we look specifically at reserves, overall 36% of all dwellings on reserve are in need of major repairs, about the same percentage noted earlier for dwellings that are considered to be overcrowded. Compared to all aboriginal housing, on-reserve housing is about 1.5 times more in need of major repairs.

Across the provinces, Prince Edward Island and the three Prairie Provinces all have 40% or more of aboriginal dwellings in need of major repairs. Newfoundland and Labrador, Quebec, Yukon and the Northwest Territories have relatively lower proportions of dwellings in need of major repairs, with percentages under 30%.

Note that Nunavut does not have any reserves.

The status on housing conditions of aboriginal people is also available according to tenure, that is, whether the dwelling is owned or rented. Dwellings owned by aboriginal people are twice as likely to require major repairs as dwellings owned by non-aboriginal people. In general, dwellings that are rented are more in need of major repairs than those that are owned. However, whether we look at aboriginal or non-aboriginal populations, the type of geographic area, be it on-reserve, rural, or urban, has a much larger impact on the need for major repairs than whether it is owned or rented.

In the Aboriginal Peoples Survey, respondents were asked whether or not they felt their water was contaminated at certain times of the year. According to the 2001 Aboriginal Peoples Survey, 18% of aboriginal persons living off-reserve said there were times of the year when their water was contaminated. At 37%, the proportion was twice as high for aboriginal persons living in the Arctic. The percentages for those living in other rural and urban areas were relatively close to the off-reserve average of 18%. So there are lots of numbers.

In summary, housing conditions for aboriginal peoples are much more severe than for the general population, especially on-reserve, in rural areas, and in the Arctic, where the proportion of houses needing major repairs is at least three times higher than the Canadian average. Dwellings owned by aboriginal people are twice as likely to require major repairs as dwellings owned by non-aboriginal people. Overcrowding of aboriginal dwellings remains quite high compared to the situation of non-aboriginal people, despite a small improvement between 1996 and 2001, especially on-reserve and in the Arctic.

This concludes my presentation. My colleague Marie and I will be glad to answer any questions that you may have.

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Thank you.

I would ask the Liberal side whether they would like to ask any questions.

Mr. Merasty.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Gary Merasty Liberal Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, let me thank you for your presentation.

I have grown to appreciate the hard work of people who collect data and statistics, having focused a lot of my work in the past on this area, as a driver of public policy—and of circumstances that are described and painted as accurately as you can. Your work is sometimes very difficult, so I appreciate your presentation.

I have a lead-off question, right off the bat, with the collection of the data as specific to population projections, before I get into the housing. What do you think your limitations are with respect to the growth projections you've used and use currently for the aboriginal population growth? The reason I ask this is that in my experience we've run into situations where—and you mention fertility rates here, that they should decline—the assumption sometimes is that you base it on the Canadian average fertility rate instead of the aboriginal population fertility rate, and that skews numbers. We find that previous statistics that have been collected always seem to underestimate the actual growth that the next set of statistics have.

Do you know if there is some limitation so that maybe we can start to see a more accurate leveling off of population and more accurate projections?

11:20 a.m.

Director General, Social and Demographic Statistics, Statistics Canada

Rosemary Bender

The projections of the aboriginal populations were done specifically for each of the three main groups. They were prepared using information from the 1996 and 2001 censuses—so a lot of the growth and a lot of the assumptions were based on that period--as well as using information that we do have available on fertility, migration, and mortality available from the census and from the information on registered Indians.

This information is projected to 2017, based on the trends that we have observed over the past five years. How these trends will continue is really part of the assumptions we have made. We will be looking closely as these data become updated with the 2006 census data, to provide even more recent projections of the population.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Gary Merasty Liberal Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

I know the census sometimes doesn't penetrate the aboriginal community deeply enough, so then the projections are not as accurate and we have people complaining that they're not represented in the numbers. But I think it's important to note that these provide a trend, and that's key.

The second question is on housing. Are there any statistics on the rates of construction of new homes in aboriginal communities, or more specifically in first nation communities?

11:20 a.m.

Marie Patry Assistant Director, Aboriginal Data, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

We don't collect this type of information. CMHC and INAC are coming to the committee. They should have this type of information, I presume.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Gary Merasty Liberal Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

How about information on the types of occupants? For example, how many social assistance recipients are living in these on-reserve houses? Do you have any of that data?

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Director, Aboriginal Data, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Marie Patry

We have some information on the sources of income, so people receiving government transfers would be the best approximation of people receiving social benefits.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Gary Merasty Liberal Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK

Did you find a correlation between those living on social assistance and the rates of major repairs required to correlate?

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Director, Aboriginal Data, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Marie Patry

We haven't done these studies.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Madam Karetak-Lindell.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Nancy Karetak-Lindell Liberal Nunavut, NU

Thank you.

I also want to thank Statistics Canada for the work they do. I know they've been quite successful in the north. I got called at 9 o'clock at night for the aboriginal survey, so I know they're working pretty hard. I know there were people in our northern communities over the summer or fall, so I know they're trying very hard to get the statistics.

I'm trying to, again, see a connection between the moneys that are earmarked for housing. We sometimes don't know if they are directly used for housing. I know that's not part of your study, but with the amount of investments going to the community now and the numbers that you have, do you have any idea when, in numbers of years, at the rate that we're going, we would alleviate the overcrowding in the communities? Do you have a projection of how many years that would take, at the current trend of investment of both the federal government and provincial and territorial governments? At the rate we're going now, how long do you think it would take us to at least alleviate the overcrowding in the aboriginal community?

11:25 a.m.

Director General, Social and Demographic Statistics, Statistics Canada

Rosemary Bender

We do not do any projections for the rates of construction of housing. What the census can provide is regular updates on the numbers of housing, the types of housing, and the level of overcrowding, as well as the conditions of housing. This can be updated on a regular basis through the Census of Population. We do not have projections.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Nancy Karetak-Lindell Liberal Nunavut, NU

The reason I asked that is that you had one where you're showing an increase from 1996 to 2001 of dwellings needing major repairs, and you also had another one where the numbers are going higher. Actually, the one on aboriginal people is going down, but the one for repairs is going up. I wondered if that was also a way to show whether we're slowly eating away at it or we're not.

11:25 a.m.

Director General, Social and Demographic Statistics, Statistics Canada

Rosemary Bender

Yes, the 2006 information will be able to provide you with an update on that as well, to be able to indicate whether the trend is actually continuing.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes

Mr. Lemay.

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

I will try to be quick so that my colleague may also ask a question.

Do your data pertain exclusively to reserves recognized by the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Canada?

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Director, Aboriginal Data, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Marie Patry

Yes, these reserves are recognized by the Department of Indian Affairs.

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Are communities which are not recognized as reserves by the department also included in your statistics?

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Director, Aboriginal Data, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Marie Patry

That depends on the type of community. A small rural municipality would be found in the same column as rural regions. A small urban centre would be grouped with data on urban centres located outside of metropolitan areas.

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Where would the community of Kitcisakik, located in La Vérendrye Park, be categorized?

11:25 a.m.

Assistant Director, Aboriginal Data, Social and Aboriginal Statistics Division, Statistics Canada

Marie Patry

Most likely under data on rural regions. I can double check that.

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

On page 4 of your written submission, it says that by the year 2017, more than 60% of aboriginals—a word which I do not like—will be living off reserves. Is this correct?

11:30 a.m.

Director General, Social and Demographic Statistics, Statistics Canada

Rosemary Bender

Indeed, according to our forecasts, the percentage of the population living off reserves by 2017 will be 60%.