Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 6th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We're not signing a report; we're looking for information from witnesses, correct?

Madame Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I agree, and Ms. Crowder summed it up, as did you.

What I would like to keep open the option on, Mr. Chair, is that after we hear the officials we may want to draft a report to the House recommending that certain action be taken based on the information we have from Ms. Hurley and what we hear.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

What I'm hearing is that you want to have the option of drafting a report or just forwarding a resolution.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

That's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Okay, so then we're not closing the door for that.

Madam Karetak-Lindell.

[Nancy Karetak-Lindell, Liberal, Nunavut, NU]

I want to add that I feel very strongly about looking at the status of the recommendations, because I also want the public there to know that just because the report has been done it's not just sitting on a shelf, that we do try to follow up to see where it's gone, so that we actually go back, look at the recommendations, and are able to report, saying there has been movement on these recommendations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

What the committee did do was instruct the clerk to make sure the department was aware of the information we wanted. It's basically a status report on the past recommendations.

Is there anything from the government side on this?

Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Since our good parliamentary secretary has been absent in recent days for family reasons, rumours according to which the minister would be tabling the housing bill have been circulating on Parliament Hill. I would like to know whether the government can validate or invalidate these rumours. Are we mistaken, or are these rumours well-founded? In fact, there is no point in beginning a study or following up on certain issues if draft legislation is currently being prepared by the department and is expected to be tabled in the upcoming days or weeks.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Bruinooge, do you have an answer for Mr. Lemay?

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Lemay, all I can report, of course, is just the statement that the minister has made previously in relation to matrimonial property and that now consultations are ongoing. That is of course in relation to housing on-reserve. It's his hope to have those consultations completed sooner rather than later. I imagine there will be legislation coming, but I don't think it's as imminent as perhaps any rumour that you've heard would suggest.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, obviously, as a committee, we expect our witnesses to be prepared to answer our questions, so that we can determine what has become of the recommendations. In fact, the document Ms. Hurley has prepared is very clear, and the witnesses can only expect that we have questions to ask.

I am going over the list of witnesses for the meeting of February 13. Through the parliamentary secretary, I wish to advise the department that I do not want their delegates to appear before us and tell us that they are studying the recommendations. These recommendations were tabled a year and a half ago, and something must be done. Let me restate that in even clearer terms: We expect some very specific recommendations for the next budget. We are not asking for budget secrets to be disclosed, but we want to know whether or not specific recommendations were set out by the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development pertaining to housing, mold, and overcrowding in aboriginal and Inuit dwellings, in accordance with our recommendations.

We expect officials to provide us with answers on these issues at the next meeting on February 13.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Thank you, Mr. Lemay. The parliamentary secretary could take that under advisement and advise his minister.

Moving on to the next item, it was that the committee undertake a study on child welfare. Recent media focus is on this issue of whether or not aboriginal children have the same financial support as non-aboriginal children when it comes to child welfare. We did have a submission as a committee, if you recall, by Cindy Blackstock. There was a report that she submitted. That was forwarded to the minister, and this committee asked for a response on that.

The subcommittee thought that might be an area the committee would be interested in taking on as a study, to see how factual the information that was provided was and, as far as policy is concerned, what is the best way to meet the needs of aboriginal children who are in the custody of social services.

Mr. Bruinooge.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

I just want to go back to our undertaking in the fall where, as a committee, we laid out topics that we wanted to pursue. Of course, the first one was post-secondary education, and I know housing was near the top as well. There were some other priorities on that list, such as governance and things of that nature. So that would be my question, that perhaps the list that was originally considered be looked at again for the next topics that we pursue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Madam Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I take Mr. Bruinooge's point, but we know that things change, and given the current information concerning filing a complaint around the Canadian Human Rights Commission and the potential for a follow-up lawsuit, it would seem timely for us to take a look at child welfare, since there's an immediacy around it. I just think it would be a good thing for the committee to do at this point in time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Is there anything further?

Madam Neville.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

As you know, Mr. Chair, I was part of the discussions. I share Ms. Crowder's concerns. I think child welfare has been part of the agenda. I certainly had a briefing on it last year. It's complicated. It's now very much part of the public discussion, and I think the immediacy of it really compels us to look at it and to come forward with some solutions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I believe that children's well-being is an ongoing concern. I agree with the proposal that we are considering. In fact, we discussed this on Monday. However, when we do begin the study, we will have to take into consideration federal, provincial and municipal jurisdictions. Mr. Chair, we are going to have to decide how we will deal with this specific issue.

I see in the fourth report of the subcommittee, that there is a point which has already been studied. We had agreed to point out to the committee of the whole that we wish to obtain an update on the situation, to avoid redoing work that has already been done. For example—I thought this would be included but I don't see it—I suggested that we be given a briefing on the Kacheshewan situation every six weeks. What is happening in Pekangikum?

I wish to address the government party directly. We do not want to start all over again every month. I request that the department forward information to us so that we do not have to request it every six weeks. However, if this requires a motion, I will table one immediately even if it is only in French, and it can be translated into English later. In any case, regardless, we have to be given regular updates on the issues before this committee.

Allow me to give a very specific example. The government asked the opposition parties to make bill C-34, concerning education in British Columbia, a priority, and to deal with it quickly. We, that is myself and my counterparts from the other opposition parties, agreed to this request and passed the bill expeditiously in the month of December. We were waiting for the bill to be put to a vote in the House before adjournment in December. My leader asked me what happened and why bill C-34 was not tabled in the House for swift adoption, as was requested by the government. I would like an update on these matters.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

Mr. Lemay, the purpose of the subcommittee was not to deal with that item. The chair would entertain the motion now, after we deal with this report from the subcommittee.

I know we discussed it; there wasn't a motion. That wasn't the purpose of the subcommittee meeting.

As I say, I'll entertain that after we deal with the report.

[Rod Bruinooge, Conservative, Winnipeg South, MB]

Mr. Chair, could I also please clarify, in relation to Bill C-34, that it did achieve royal assent due to the agreement of all parties? It didn't require a final vote.

I think that was your question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

We're moving out of the subject of the subcommittee report. Now I'm going to be looking for a motion from the subcommittee to adopt the report.

[Anita Neville, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

I so move.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Colin Mayes]

That was the final issue we dealt with at the subcommittee.

There were issues around the fact that when we do have witnesses dealing with a subject, the chair cannot move forward to ask for a response from the department or the minister, unless given direction. So what I suggest to the subcommittee is that if something comes from a witness about which committee members want to have information from the department or a response from the minister, you need to go on record with a motion, and then we can get an official response.

Madam Neville.