Mr. LeBlanc.
Evidence of meeting #7 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
Evidence of meeting #7 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was report.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
Are there any plans to put more emphasis on capacity building?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Socio-economic Policy and Regional Operations Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The department recognizes the importance of the seven factors of success and they are foremost in our considerations. The one that you mentioned is indeed very important.
I think of the enhanced water management strategy, for example, that the minister announced a few months ago. Very central to supporting first nations in managing safe and clean water for their citizens is the promotion of capacity building--training for plant operators, training available for first nations administrators in the area of water.
We talked a little earlier about institution building. In many cases not only does the department provide direct support for the training and certification of water plant operators, the department also supports first nations organizations that specialize in the provision of that very training. Where there is an absence of trained or certified operators, it actually provides certified oversight on an itinerant basis. That's an example of where we do indeed value capacity building. There are several others.
In the area of managing the housing stock, we do provide support for training for first nations people who are charged with that responsibility. There are programs in the education envelope that provide support for training and development of education administrators and we provide resources to aggregate levels like tribal councils, which in turn provide support to first nations. That capacity is built at the first nation level, in the school, in the water plant, and then it's built at aggregations where it's indispensable to provide an economy of scale and an overview of capacity and expertise to a natural aggregation of first nations, sometimes tribal councils and sometimes other aggregations.
Those are a few examples. There are others.
Conservative
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
I want to clarify what I said about taxes to Ms. Lindell. I did say that the Inuit were taxpayers. Indeed, they pay a lot more tax than the others. They have to pay for the cost of transporting merchandise, on which they also pay tax. The Inuit mention that, in fact, they pay taxes just like other Canadians and don't even have any roads. They would like the government to subsidize transport in order to allow them to purchase what they need at reasonable prices.
I would now like to talk about overcrowded, obsolete and dangerous housing. Water reservoirs have never been replaced and their maintenance costs a fortune. Those reservoirs are sometimes contaminated by other water sources. Moreover, septic tanks are rotten, and maintaining heating systems costs a fortune.
Madam Auditor, have any studies ever been done on this? We know that each year, we ask for 800 houses. Last year, in Nunavik, we were 800 houses short. Two hundred and fifty were granted over five years. In light of the rate of population growth, in five years, those 250 houses will already be insufficient. In the meantime, overcrowding will get worse. Most houses have three or four bedrooms and 10 or 15 people live in them. If the government invested a bit more money to solve the problem of overcrowding, wouldn't it recoup these savings in health care?
Conservative
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Yes, that's what I'm....
That is what I'm doing, Mr. Chairman. However, I would like to be well understood. Has a study been done to determine whether the fact of correcting that problem and all of the others would allow the government to save money in the final analysis?
Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Mr. Chairman, I don't know if the study Mr. Lévesque refers to has been done. However, when we carried out our audit on housing in 2001, the department estimated that 8,500 housing units were needed and that 44 per cent of the 89,000 existing houses were in need of major renovations. At the time, we pointed out that with population, growth, housing needs would become increasingly acute. It is certain that the situation is going to get worse, not better. I don't know if the department has more recent information.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Socio-economic Policy and Regional Operations Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Mr. Chairman, the only figure I can cite is the additional investment in the 2005 budget: there amounted to a $265 million increase in the annual base budget of the department for housing, which was $138 million. I think that this will allow for the construction of 6,400 new housing units as well as permit major renovations to 5,000 other housing units. This will have a significant impact on the backlog. However, in order to meet this challenge, other measures than public investment will have to be taken. There will have to be financing from the market. In order to multiply the public investment, we will have to go and get investments from individuals or the commercial sector.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes
Thank you very much to the witnesses, who have provided valuable information.
Madam Fraser, your audit laid out some challenges to this committee and the department, and we believe we're up to them. Hopefully the next time we speak you'll have a favourable report about some of the accomplishments of the department and this committee.
I want to thank you very much for appearing today.
Auditor General, Office of the Auditor General of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
I want to thank Ms. Fraser for coming.
Mr. Chair, may I make a suggestion?
We have the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development in on Wednesday, I think. A number of questions have centred around treaties, land claims, and so on. Can the department provide a person who can answer those particular questions or address those issues?
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Socio-economic Policy and Regional Operations Sector, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Yes, the department will be represented in that area.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Mr. Chairman, we received governor-in-council appointment orders and we have 30 days to study them. I expect that we will do this at the next meeting or at the June 5 meeting.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes
Reviewing this is an option the committee has. It is not something we must do; it's up to the pleasure of the committee. What is the pleasure of the committee?
Ms. Neville.
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
Mr. Chairman, I didn't hear Mr. Lemay's original question. I'm sorry.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Colin Mayes
It concerned appointments within the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. In the act, there is information with regard to the engagement of an employee, such as a new deputy minister for the department.
Liberal
Liberal
Anita Neville Liberal Winnipeg South Centre, MB
—is that committees I've been on before had the discretion to determine which potential new employees they would like to interview. If other committee members wish to call this person before the committee, I would certainly support it.