Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2009

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well, the other major issue that was identified in the McCrank report was the land use plans. Once again, what has been your response to our Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, where he asked for greater cooperation between the federal government and the territorial government in advancing not only the regional land use plans but also the land use plan for the entire Northwest Territories?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Of course, I think we're working well with the northern governments, and particularly with the Northwest Territories. I met with Mr. Miltenberger again within the last couple of weeks. He again had some ideas on how to move ahead. Some of it has to be done hand in glove with devolution, and he knows that, as do I. We can't run roughshod over existing land claims agreements and so on; it has to be a system that will work for everybody.

The message I get from NWT, for example, is they want a balance between protected areas and areas that can be developed. They have a percentage in mind of how much land should be set aside for protected areas and how much should be set aside for development. We were able to work with them through the mirror process to develop the new boundaries for Nahanni Park. They're interested in using that same kind of process to make sure that all interests are heard when we look at other land use proposals, whether it's the East Arm or other options.

My sense is it's working well, but some of the other, bigger devolution pieces will happen, again, when all the stakeholders are ready to make that move. It's not a unilateral federal decision.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

What about the interim Dehcho land use plan? Are you ready to move ahead with that, to get that particular item off the table? It is very important to move ahead with many of the projects in the Northwest Territories.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

When I met with the Dehcho two weeks ago, certainly that was one of the things they raised with me. I was able to assure them of two things. One thing is they have a proposal on how regulatory issues should be handled within the land they have their eye on. What I said to them is that we're keen to listen to any proposal that works in harmony with the existing regulatory regimes. In other words, we don't want to set up another layer on top of all the other layers, because there are too many layers in NWT now. We don't want to have one that puts people at odds—

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

But the Mackenzie Valley Resource Management Act calls for a land use plan in each region of the Northwest Territories, and without those you can't move ahead with the regulatory process.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I know the land use plan, which is part of what they talked about, is important. We're interested in it, but their primary interest was that we were aware of and we are considering the resource management system they want to use in a regulatory way in the north. I told them we are expressly interested in that. I know Mr. Borbey will be in Yellowknife in the next week or so and we'll make sure their proposal has good consideration.

On the land use plan itself, I was able to say to them—and I think it's the right thing to say—that everyone is eager to move ahead. When land use plans are in place, it's good for everyone. I understand that. But we want to know that when the land use plan is agreed to by all parties, we can carry through and they can carry through. In other words, we need a certain degree of certainty before signing off on it.

Frankly, what I don't want, and what they can't handle either, is putting in place an interim land use plan and then a change of leadership takes place. In the past, leaders have signed on to certain land use plans and new chiefs have come in and said they don't want to do that any more. That's not good for anybody. Whatever we move ahead with, we have to have a degree of certainty so that when it's agreed to it's not in flux. Land use plans have to be predictable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bevington and Mr. Minister.

Now let's go to Mr. Duncan, for seven minutes, and I think that will finish up the round for the minister this morning. Then we'll proceed with the officials.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for attending this morning.

We've talked a lot about economic development and skills training and that side of things, which are rather critical for the north. To put things in perspective, I understand there was a time when there was no money going into economic development in the north. Can you describe how we got there and where we are now?

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Certainly. There was a period, about 1996 or so, where as far as the federal government was concerned there was virtually no investment in economic development in the north. For seven or eight years there was almost nothing.

That started to come around with the announcement of the SINED programming, which I mentioned earlier. It was a fledgling program. Five years ago people weren't quite sure what to make of it, but it was the start of increasing investment by the government in the north. Certainly there was a period of time, from 1996, for about seven or eight years where there was almost nothing.

Right now each of these announcements not only provides some tangible benefits to northerners, it also sends a message of hope. It shows the interest of the federal government in helping northerners. It has been done in an unprecedented manner as far as investment, not just of money, which is important, but also, for example, with the creation of CanNor, which has been asked for up north for probably for 30 years. That ship has finally come in.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

You mentioned SINED. I wonder whether you can describe the early feedback we have received with the implementation of that strategic investment and what kinds of changes we've made to the programming as a consequence.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I mentioned in my opening remarks that one of the large pre-budget asks a year ago was for assurance that we were going to renew the funding for SINED. Up until recently, SINED was the only game in town up north, and people were clear right across the territories that they wanted to see it renewed. By and large, people were satisfied with the way it was being implemented. It wasn't just a one-off announcement. There was, as the name implies, an actual strategy to the investment, and northerners were involved in developing that strategy. All the territorial governments and many aboriginal groups and private companies said it was an example of how to get things done.

By housing it in CanNor, we are unleashing the energy to be gained of putting SINED together with more money in economic development. We are also housing the community adjustment fund, the RInC fund, skills and training development, and an advocacy role for CanNor, not only in the north, but also with federal agencies across the whole federal family. I believe this combination will trigger a remarkable renaissance of economic development in the north. It won't be completely one-stop shopping, but it will be as close as you can get, which is unprecedented.

I would hope you'll get input on that. It's going to be valuable to us. CanNor is in its early days, and we want to make sure that the information we gather is complete and inclusive of northerners. We want to get it right. SINED is going well, but we want the whole package to be equally well received.

[John Duncan, Conservative, Vancouver Island North, BC]

I think CanNor's being an advocate for the north in Ottawa and in the rest of Canada is a crucial concept and mandate. I'm wondering if you could describe the ways in which you envision this happening.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

My hat's off to Ms. Jauvin and her folks, who have taken a very aggressive role, from one end of the north to the other. They've been at a great many meetings, forums, and feasts, trying to find out how we can make sure the agency reflects northerners' concerns. For example, at the IGF, when I was up in the Yukon a short while ago, one of the things they wanted to know was how to have their interests represented. I promised them that next spring we'll sit down with them. In the meantime, we will consult with them. By next spring, Ms. Jauvin or her representative will be there to report to the intergovernmental forum on how it's going to work, how we see it all unfolding. We will be reporting to northerners both formally and informally.

The value of this advocacy role shouldn't be underestimated. A couple of years ago, we had Yukon Days here in Ottawa. Representatives of the Yukon government and aboriginal groups came down and had a very successful week—talking to ministers and holding meetings with the private sector and with NGOs. We were able to focus on the Yukon for a week. It was unprecedented. What it pointed out was that northerners want to be heard and they want to make sure they're being heard. I think CanNor can help to open some ears.

The federal government is linked to the north and has unique responsibilities there. It is difficult for proponents and first-time leaders to understand how to navigate the maze that is Ottawa's decision-making process. When people walk in the door and say they have a problem or an exciting proposal, CanNor will be the one-stop shop that will help them to find solutions, make contacts, guide them through the maze. In many communities in many areas, there's almost no federal presence and certainly no one-stop shop. I think that's going to be a great role, and I welcome your input on how it can be maximized. I hope in your northern travels that you'll be able to find out what the people see as useful and what they see as interference. We want to make sure we get it right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Minister and Mr. Duncan.

Just before we wrap up, referring back to your opening remarks, there's one question here. You mentioned the enhanced aboriginal skills and employment partnership program and you referenced three projects, one for each of the territories.

Do you have any details or background on these? I ask because of course we will be visiting the north. If possible, perhaps we might be able to take a look at these new projects.

If you don't have the information right in front of you, perhaps you could get back to us on that. It would be very helpful.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Okay. We'll get the details for you.

Certainly, when I was in Fort Smith, for example, working with Aurora College, we announced a mobile heavy equipment training program that we were able to fund through Aurora. They were very excited about it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Excellent.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

That's the sort of thing. But we'll give you those three examples, and if they're useful in your travels, of course, we're here to help you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Certainly, the skills training component is something we are going to take a close look at.

Again, Minister, I much appreciate your attendance this morning. I know you're busy. We'll endeavour to get on with this study, and we look forward to reporting back to Parliament early in the new year.

[Chuck Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you very much.

Again, I wish you well in this study. It's extremely timely, and we look forward to your input, because we're still in the early stages, especially with CanNor, so your input will be very valuable.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Merci beaucoup.

I guess we'll have a two-minute recess in our proceedings, and then we'll come back.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mesdames et messieurs, maintenant we're going to carry on with the officials, who were introduced in our first hour. We want to get in as many questions as we can.

Ms. Jauvin, I'm wondering if you could perhaps give us some introductory comments, and then we'll proceed to questions.

Members, in the interest of time, we'll try to pare down the time of the questions and responses to, let's say, four minutes, and then we'll try to get more in.

Ms. Jauvin, welcome to our committee.

[Nicole Jauvin, President and Deputy Minister, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, I apologize. I have not prepared formal remarks. Maybe I could just say a couple of words to set the stage informally.

Obviously it's a huge privilege to have been asked to take this important position. I'm very, very excited about the challenge that faces us. I look forward to working very hard with all the different partners that we need to work with to make this agency strong and vibrant. In particular, I look forward to working with members of this committee, who I understand have a special interest in the north. Having reviewed the transcripts from the previous meetings, I hope we can contribute to that discussion.

We've been in existence for a total of eight weeks and a few hours, but the past few weeks have been very busy. We have tried, and I think we've succeeded, to maintain a focus on our priorities.

The first priority, obviously, was to continue to deliver all the programs that we need to deliver and to ensure that there was a smooth transition.

A second important priority was to build relationships across the territories with all the partners that we need to engage. A lot of the staff in the agency are known across the territories. They've been working there for a while. However, Michel and I and other senior managers are new to the north, and we felt it important to engage with partners in all the territories immediately.

Finally, another priority has been to set up the agency. I know the time of this committee is very valuable, so I will spare you the really interesting stories I could tell you about setting up an agency—getting accommodation, office space, and building passes, and so on. It's all part of the pleasure.

As I said, one of the first things we set out to do is to consult with all the different constituencies we serve in the north. Michel and I have, of course, visited all the territories now, but we need to go way beyond that and get into the communities and have a much better sense of life there.

Michel Robillard, the vice-president, has now moved to Iqaluit.

He's all settled in in Iqaluit, and I'm sure you'll get a chance to ask him how things are going.

Our vision beyond our official mandate is to become a credible and effective voice for the north in Ottawa, as well as a single window for northerners who want to access all the government economic programs in the north. That is something we will build over the longer term, but it's certainly an objective we want to keep in mind.

That's all I will say for now. I know you probably want to ask a lot of questions, and we'll all do our best to answer as much as we can.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much.

I must say, for not having prepared any notes, that was very well done and a great introduction to your agency. We wish you well in the weeks ahead.

Now let's go to questions.

We'll begin with Mr. Volpe, for four minutes.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Before you start the clock on my questioning, let me just make an observation before we begin formally.

It's unfortunate that the minister could not stay a little bit longer, because some of the questions actually relate to the minister in his capacity as the chief administrator of not only this particular project but other issues. So I hope you will take into consideration that some of the questions we will ask would probably be better directed towards him.

Ms. Jauvin, Mr. Robillard and Mr. Borbey, welcome.

My compliments on your new task, your new job. It's going to be tough, but as you just heard me say to the chairman, some of the questions you may feel a little bit uncomfortable with, and that's okay. I mean, you've only been on the job eight weeks.

Let me ask you very quickly, are you familiar with the Mackenzie Valley pipeline project fund?

[Nicole Jauvin]

Yes, I am.