Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2009

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Patrick, I appreciate that very much.

Just by way of the example that I gave in my preamble, I mentioned that there were some community economic development things that had to take place. In light of that, how will CanNor address the framework issues and the things that I've alluded to here?

[Nicole Jauvin]

Two types of programs have been transferred to CanNor under the AED. The first one is Aboriginal Business Canada, which offers equity and loans to businesses. The second suite of programs is under the community economic development program umbrella. Under this one we provide core funding to certain organizations, in other words, funding capacity, as well as to specific projects in communities. Although since the creation of CanNor no new project has been announced, there are some in the hopper, so to speak. As well, obviously, the core funding continues to the organizations that are in receipt of it.

CanNor is working with INAC very closely, because INAC is responsible for the overall pan-national framework. We want to make sure we work together. The AED program is administered in the same way as it is everywhere in the country; however, with the renewal process that's under way, I would like to see some consideration being given to the special circumstances in the north. I have every reason to believe that kind of flexibility will be open to us as the time comes.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Rickford.

Mr. Lévesque.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Chair, we hope that during our trip to Iqaluit we will get an opportunity to meet Ms. Jauvin and Mr. Robillard.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Let's go to Ms. Glover for four minutes.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the committee for indulging me.

As the committee members know, I take a great interest in aboriginal issues and have spent most of my life trying to address some of the challenges involved in aboriginal regions and communities. I continue that venture.

I have a question specifically for the department. I'd like to hear what are some of the precise priorities in regard to social issues, what those challenges are, and how the department is actually dealing with those challenges. I'd like to hear from you, sir, if you wouldn't mind. And by the way, welcome.

[Patrick Borbey]

Do you mean social issues in the north, in terms of the territories?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Yes.

[Patrick Borbey]

First of all, it's important to recognize that there's a different relationship involving the federal government and the provinces and reserves in the south and in the north, where you do not have reserves or you only have a small number of reserves. You have self-governing first nations, you have land claim organizations that have signed, and you have the territorial funding formula that funds most of the social programs for the territories. There are some small elements that we are still responsible for, which contribute to social development.

For example, on an annual basis, we do have an agreement with both NWT and Nunavut on a funding position in health services. So it's a supplement to the money they receive in transfers to recognize the fact that their population is in majority aboriginal. That's an example.

We run the food mail program, which subsidizes with nutritious foods that are shipped to the north. This applies not only in the three territories but also in northern parts of the provinces, Nunavik, northern Ontario, etc.

The other example under the northern strategy would be the housing investments that have been made—the minister spoke to those earlier—first under the trust with the territories and now through CMHC, under the recent economic action plan.

Those are some examples. There are other ways that we also contribute to social development. In the north, the primary role is with the territorial governments.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Please indulge us, sir. If you wouldn't mind touching on some of those other ones, I'm sure the committee would like to hear about those.

[Patrick Borbey]

Other areas would be small investments that we may make through very modest programs. For example, we support hunters and trappers associations in making available traditional foods in communities, through things like subsidizing the building of community freezers. We provide research results that help make decisions with respect to nutrition in the north by looking at the presence of contaminants, for example, in traditional foods and things of that nature. Also through the land claim agreements, there are some social responsibilities that are acted upon by the department.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

My background is policing. I spent almost 19 years policing. I'm interested in whether your department has some contact with the self-governing bands. Do you talk about policing with them? Do you offer advice to them, ever, with regard to that, and do they talk to you about any violence against women, men, or children up in the north?

[Patrick Borbey]

We don't have a role in policing. We don't have a role in the administration of justice. However, the issues of violence, mental health, and suicide—all those issues—are certainly important and there are many different ways that the department and other departments can contribute to helping with some of the solutions. In a way we do get involved but not in the direct way that you might be looking for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have to leave it there.

We have time for two brief questions. There are two speakers on the list.

Mr. Bevington, you have three minutes.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to have another question.

Mr. Borbey, the minister talked about the expansion of the diamond industry throughout Canada and in the Northwest Territories. Your department is in charge of mineral development in the north. We've been concerned over the past number of years that the existing diamond mines have exceeded their agreed-upon production quotas, in some cases by 100%. What actions has your department taken, through the mineral development agency that comes under your jurisdiction, to ensure that the mines are using the resource in a proper fashion to maximize benefits to Canada and to people of the north?

[Patrick Borbey]

The terms and conditions that the mines operate under in the north are set through the regulatory process, so the approvals are done through that process. INAC is a participant, and we have a role to play in inspection. For example, if there are any violations or issues with respect to licences, we are the ones who inspect and, working with other colleagues, decide what is to be done about corrective measures. But I'm not aware of any role that INAC has been given in terms of monitoring quotas of production.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Well, when you go through an environmental assessment process, you set up a mine plan that shows a certain progression of the development of the resource. It's tied to the value of the resource and to the benefits that can accrue from an orderly development of that resource.

What we've seen in the Northwest Territories is that in many cases the production has exceeded by 100% what they agreed to in the original mine plan. Does your department have a concern about that? You're the only agency that can actually provide any control over mineral development in the north. The Northwest Territories government has no control over it; it's entirely within your bailiwick. Have you considered this issue?

[Patrick Borbey]

We would only consider this issue in terms of whether it violated or was contrary to terms and conditions that had been set through the regulatory process. It's not our role to police the industry.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

So it's not your role to control the resource development to maximize the benefits to Canada and to the people of the north from resource development. Then whose is it? Who is responsible?

[Patrick Borbey]

Our role is to apply the law of the land. That's what our inspectors do the best they can in, in terms of being able to meet those requirements.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Bevington and Mr. Borbey.

Now the final question goes to Mr. Bagnell for three minutes.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have only one brief comment to make and one question to ask.

First of all, I just want to make a quick comment to brief you to make sure you're not misled by the minister and are hopefully better briefed on historical economic development. There always have been economic development funds in the north for aboriginal people through special AHRDAs, or through CEIC, Indian Affairs, Industry Canada, or the Aboriginal Capital Corporations. There's a long history of it, so to say that it wasn't there is not true.

But it was good to hear the minister wax eloquent about the success of the SINED program created by Paul Martin.

As for my question, during the set-up of your agency, Dawson City--and you've probably seen this correspondence to the minister--made the very good point that the economies of the rural communities in the north are totally different from the economies of the capital cities. I'm just hoping you will recognize that, and I'm wondering if you have any plans on how you can deal with the specific constraints and opportunities that those rural communities in the north will have, which will be totally different from those of the advanced economies of the capital cities.

[Nicole Jauvin]

I'd like to jump in on that. I have not seen that correspondence; however, I think you described it and I can relate to that. What I would say is that it's clearly understood that there are huge differences between the three capitals and the communities or hamlets that are not those capitals. When we speak to territorial governments, we need to speak to them about those other areas as well.

But there's another interlocutor that's very important, and that's the first nations leadership in each community. In the Yukon, for example, I've had an opportunity to meet with the Council of Yukon First Nations, which is the umbrella group. There were very interesting discussions, because the leaders were very clear that they wanted to be involved and that their problems and issues were completely different. They wanted to make sure that their voice was heard on an equal basis. Of course, I assured them it would be, but I would see that as an important way of getting to the communities that are outside of the three large centres in the territories.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bagnell.

I would like to thank today's witnesses for their submissions. I'm sure they will help us produce our future report.

We appreciate your attention today, members.

I have one final note before we wrap up. There was a work plan document circulated. For those who are substituting today, you might pass that on to the regular members who attend our committee, for their information.

To our witnesses, have a safe drive home.

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.