Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2009

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Great. We're off to a good start.

[Nicole Jauvin]

I am familiar enough with it to know that it doesn't come under the responsibility of CanNor, but I have had a briefing on it.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

But you're going to have coordinative responsibilities for all the projects up in the north so that you can coordinate the various departments. These include that which has responsibility and carriage over this particular fund, and also, through Human Resources or Service Canada, programs associated with ARDA and ASEP, as we've just heard. Those are not new programs; they've been there for quite some time, and they're all a part of trying to develop the economy of the north and the skill sets required for that development, but to do it locally. It has been an ongoing program. There's lots of money available under ASEP; there has always been lots of money available under ARDA. The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline was established to do that as well.

Madame Jauvin, you've obviously heard recently that the fund was expensed for some $10.7 million, although it doesn't appear to be alive as a project. Is it still alive or not?

[Nicole Jauvin]

This is really not in my bailiwick, but let me make one little correction. We don't have the mandate to administer or coordinate all government programs up north, but we'd like to think that over time we will develop the capacity to direct people to the right place. In the case of Mackenzie Valley, I would like to think that CanNor's role is to ensure that whoever is interested is directed to the office that is responsible for the pipeline.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

It would be really unfortunate if, in the absence of someone like yourself, or in the creation of a project or an agency such as the one you're heading, somebody else thought it would be okay to expense a fund that was really dormant.

[Nicole Jauvin]

I will ask Mr. Borbey, who represents the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs' other responsibilities, to add what he can on that.

[Patrick Borbey, Assistant Deputy Minister, Northern Affairs, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Thank you.

The fund, as you know, is not flowing yet. It will not flow until such time as there's a decision to build a pipeline. At this point, it still remains a hypothetical fund.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

That's really interesting. For a hypothetical fund to have members of another department—in this instance, Transport—attribute some $10.7 million worth of expenses against it would suggest that there is at least somebody who's making a decision that would be helpful in the north and would be helpful for the human resources development.

Do you know whether any of that money went to human resources development of the local population, or whether it went to building an infrastructure for tomorrow? Or did somebody in fact just try to fill a vacuum?

[Patrick Borbey]

If I may, Mr. Chair, I'd like to clarify. There are two issues. There is a $500 million fund that has been planned for in the event that a pipeline is created. As well, the government has been appropriating moneys through Parliament to allow for departments and agencies that have a role in the regulatory system to play that role in anticipation of a report by the JRP and of moving to the next phase.

The funds you're referring to that were appropriated to Transport Canada are related to that preparatory work. Our department—

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Is that the $500 million notional fund out there?

[Patrick Borbey]

The $500 million is a completely different issue. What you're talking about is the funds—about $30 million or so—that were approved as part of the economic action plan to allow for the preparatory work related to the regulatory process, getting us past the JRP and into the permitting process.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you very much, Mr. Volpe and Mr. Borbey.

Now we'll go to Mr. Dreeshen for four minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Thank you. It's a great opportunity to be able to ask some questions.

I'm a former school teacher. People have many concerns about making sure that people in northern communities are being properly trained and have access to training programs. That's where I want to go with some of my discussion.

Have you had any input as to whether companies in the north have taken some of the responsibility upon themselves to assist in training programs?

[Nicole Jauvin]

My answer is going to be to the best of my knowledge, but under the existing comprehensive claim agreements there is a responsibility for proponents of projects, for example, to ensure that there are benefits provided for aboriginal or first nations. I understand that in each case, for example, whenever a project is considered, there would be provision for benefits to accrue to first nations or aboriginal groups. Again speaking very generally, I am aware that there are such training programs for these groups.

I would also say with respect to CanNor specifically that we have the responsibility to work with HRSDC. What we're trying to do is embed some of their staff in our Iqaluit office. What we would like to do is ensure greater knowledge, greater opportunities for training programs, when we are designing programs, and more generally in addressing the way we look at projects.

[Michel Robillard, Executive Vice-President, Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency]

I'd like to add that about a month ago I was in Iqaluit. Iqaluit is under the Qikiqtani region, and I met with officials from the Kakivak CEDO, a community economic development organization. I was interested in learning from them how they integrate economic development and learning skill development activities. The way it's done is that when they have a project, for instance a construction project in Iqaluit, they will team up with the school to bring apprentices on board who will get formal training; then, after that, they're almost ready to start in a real job as a plumber or a carpenter and so forth.

So they have a more systemic, integrated approach to economic development, making sure that everything from learning is integrated, and they're way ahead. What we would like to do at HRSDC is develop this kind of systemic, more integrated approach, so that, for instance, if we have an economic development project proposed by one of the territories for a community, we will make sure, with our colleagues from HRSDC, that we can integrate the skills development component in the economic development project.

This is really promising. We are teaming up with HRSDC and developing the approach right now. But we are also learning from our partners in the north, who have been doing that for many years now.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Is this part of the advocacy the minister spoke of, part of assisting not only with education but with other programs as well?

[Nicole Jauvin]

I think you could consider it part of that. This advocacy role is one we will need to develop. We don't want to be presumptuous, either; one of the first things is to understand the context, understand the circumstances, so that we can make representations in Ottawa.

This is the first time that a deputy minister, around the deputy ministers table, has the north as their exclusive responsibility. That's another example of advocacy that I think will be important. Over time this role will evolve, and it's up to us to make sure that it's credible and that it works.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Dreeshen.

We now move on to Mr. Lemay. You have only four minutes, Mr. Lemay.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, I had to go to the House to debate a mixed-up bill that you tabled.

To begin, if I may, Mr. Chair, I'm going to congratulate Ms. Jauvin, because she is from the Rouyn-Noranda region. For those who don't know, it's a beautiful place, a wonderful place. I congratulate you on your appointment.

First the bouquets, then the brickbats.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mr. Lemay, unfortunately the translation is not working.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Now that the interpretation is working, I'll carry on. I was late because I had to speak to a bill in the House.

You're from the Rouyn-Noranda region, so I think you'll be a strong advocate for the North. I'm sure that the reason you were chosen to play such an important role is that you have solid experience.

I am concerned, however. We know what Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions does. We also know what FedNor does. I have a few problems with CanNor. You say that the Agency is also responsible for the northern component of two economic incentive programs [...] the Community Adjustment Fund and the Recreational Infrastructure Canada Program. It is also responsible for the Northern Projects Management Office, which is huge.

We're going to be visiting that part of the country, Iqaluit, on November 24. Is it possible to get an organization chart? It seems to me that CanNor is being added on top of what used to be the Northern Projects Management Office; it's not clear. If I had one think to ask you, it would be this: exactly what role does CanNor play in day-to-day life in Iqaluit and other parts of the North?

[Nicole Jauvin]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemay.

We can certainly give you an organization chart. Once again, it's early days for us. The organization chart will be a provisional one. We are currently working on a business plan that includes the matters we are responsible for and the things we have to deliver, human resources and financial resources. That's the first thing we have to do. The plan will help us a lot and will probably help you, too, understand what it is we do.

Our mandate is to deliver programs that comprise eight components. I believe they're listed in the documentation. That's the first part.

The Projects Management Office, that's something new for the North. It hasn't yet been created. It was announced in September. We think we'll be able to get started in the spring. It will be an office that helps companies that want to submit major projects navigate through all the regulations. It's patterened somewhat after the projects office that exists in the South and is overseen by the Department of Natural Resources. That's our model. Of course, we're going to use a lot of tools, but it has to be adapted to the North.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Will you also be working jointly? I see references everywhere to the North: the Northwest Territories, Nunavut, and so on. However, there's a part of northern Quebec that is of great interest to the Inuit, Nunavuk, where there's a corporation called Makivik. Will there be joint initiatives? We know that for the Inuit, no matter which side, there are no borders.

[Nicole Jauvin]

Right off the bat, it's important to point out that our mandate covers the three territories, that's for certain. We have to be clear, it stops there. That doesn't mean that the northern Quebec region will be abandoned. It has been served by DEC for many years, and things are going well. However, we know that there are many Inuit in the region and there are a lot of issues shared with other parts of the territories. I would say that as far as research and some approaches are concerned, there will be a great deal of collaboration. We will also be working very closely with regional agencies to ensure that we have programs that are available to all Inuit.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

How long is your mandate?