Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Nov. 15th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Clarke.

Mr. Lemay, you have five minutes.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

My colleague from Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou is very concerned about this issue.

Madam Minister, I was surprised, if not shocked, when you asked that the committee take care of the consumers who will benefit, let's hope, from this program. I can assure you that this will be part of the committee's concerns. We started this study specifically to make sure that the money invested benefits consumers.

Personally, I am concerned about the fact that we were told last June that the advisory committee would be formed in September or in October at the latest. I see today that it has not been created yet. This is our third Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development. That's my first observation.

My second comment has to do with whether there will be an interdepartmental committee within the government with officials from the Department of Health and the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, in order to monitor, implement and enforce this program, or whether you intend to create one.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you for the consumer-focused review. Thank you for that. I think sometimes we forget that these are the people who need the program the most, so I really appreciate your supporting that.

Concerning the advisory committee, I'm not entirely familiar when it will be announced, but we did go out and seek names from various jurisdictions where this program applies. They will be making announcements around that shortly.

In terms of departmental representatives to monitor this, absolutely, there is an interdepartmental working group with Health Canada, INAC, Transport--

[Patrick Borbey]

And Treasury Board.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

--yes--who will be overseeing the implementation and rollout of this program. They will monitor it, but at the same time they will communicate the changes that are being rolled out for the next year.

Thank you.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Mr. Lévesque, the floor is yours.

[Yvon Lévesque, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Madam Minister, we know that Canada Post is currently responsible for charging carriers a one-time shipping fee, or price, in order to ensure that each retailer pays the same price for materials or food products as everyone else. You also mentioned that some roads are now accessible during certain periods of the year. Shipping by boat is also available.

What is the storage timeframe for retailers in the north? We are also being told that every retailer will be able to conduct negotiations with a carrier at the right time, based on his own needs. How will the retailer be able to get the same price as a single carrier who has bid for a subsidy?

[Patrick Borbey]

In terms of rates, whatever the retailer is being charged—or the consumer for individual orders—is the same in the north of Quebec. The price is different for Nunavut or for the Northwest Territories, but it stays the same within the same region.

So the price varies. A kilogram of goods sent to Gjoa Haven, the minister's community, is much more expensive than a kilogram of goods sent to the north of Ontario. The current program has the federal government paying for the entire difference. Each time a price goes up or the price of oil goes up, the government absorbs the increase.

When it comes to retailers, I said a little earlier that there are three chains of retailers that still have great buying power. They then negotiate the arrangements, taking into account their transportation needs. So it is not just healthy or nutritious foods, but also whatever they need to send to the stores in the various northern locations. As a result, they will be able to negotiate better methods, better rates and better terms and conditions.

That makes a lot more sense than saying that vegetables will arrive on Tuesdays because that is when Canada Post delivers vegetables in that community. So vegetables will perhaps be sent on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, and not only once a week. That will also have an impact on the quality of the food at the counter.

Those are the arguments for improving the effectiveness of the market. I hope that answers your question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

I believe Madam Minister only has one hour for us this afternoon.

Are you okay with taking a few more questions? I was given to understand that you might have to go after the hour.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I have a meeting, but I can take a few more questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

Okay. We'll go for a couple more questions until you need to leave. The meeting carries on until 5 o'clock.

I have Mr. Payne, followed by Ms. Crowder, and then Ms. Glover.

Go ahead, Mr. Payne, for five minutes.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Thank you, Chairman.

Thank you, Minister, and all the officials for coming today.

I have found this extremely interesting. One of the things that I've found quite disturbing, actually, is the issue of pop versus milk. I understand you've been working with communities all across the north, including, I understand, Nunavut, but what about the other territories? How has that worked in with your desire to change this program?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

Of course a lot of the products are also shipped from the Northwest Territories into Nunavut. From the western part of Nunavut, the NWT is the hub for fresh produce and whatnot.

In terms of concerns or improvements that were being sought in the NWT, it would be around country food as well. It has to reflect the dietary needs of the population that it serves. And a lot of what we ship up here from the south is quite foreign to many people up north. We're seeing some the results of that--diabetes and whatnot.

The concern is around affordable food, really, and very similar to what we hear in Nunavut. Honestly, I go through the stores in every community I go to and I do a price check. It's been my pet project for the last few years. I find it absolutely appalling to see watermelon for $60. How do you justify that? It has to change. I think northerners recognize that, and we need a voice for the people of the north.

The other thing is that this will allow the advisory committee to monitor what's going on at ground level. Whether we're seeing the subsidies posted, and people are understanding it, and we're delivering programs--that's a key part of the whole program. Again, that's very similar to what was raised by other jurisdictions or other territories.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

In terms of the advisory committee, do we know the numbers and where they'll be coming from? I think that's an important element in determining how they will be able to review all the pricing and provide the input.

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

My understanding is that the ad was placed in areas where this program is used, and a number of resumés were received. Those are being looked at from the very point you've raised, so that it reflects all the jurisdictions where the program is administered.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Okay.

During some of the discussion there was talk about eligible retailers and being able to place personal orders from somebody in the south. We heard about the co-ops and so on.

If another company wanted to participate in this, would they be eligible to either sign on or become a type of subcontractor to one of these other organizations?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I'll get Jamie to elaborate on that, thank you.

[Jamie Tibbetts]

By December 1, along with the rates, we'll be publishing criteria for the recipients for the selection of those so that they'll know what they're signing on to as we negotiate the new contribution agreements.

Your question was about eligible retailers...and that criteria will determine it. We anticipate 25 to 40 retailers in the southern.... The northern retailers that do not want to sign on directly with us can get their products from southern wholesalers, for instance. So that would be like subcontracting.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

Are there any other similar programs elsewhere across Canada?

[Leona Aglukkaq, Conservative, Nunavut, NU]

I'm not aware of any.

You may be, Patrick.

[Patrick Borbey]

Some smaller programs subsidize specific categories of food and during specific times of the year. Newfoundland and Labrador has a program. In northern Quebec there is a program where the price of a very limited number of goods is pegged so that every community across northern Quebec has the same price for milk, let's say.

Those are some examples. We looked at them, but they're very narrow--only a small number of eligible goods--and they don't reach the full spectrum of what we're looking for with our program. But we certainly took that into consideration. Certainly some of those programs, combined with the new Nutrition North Canada, will have an even better impact in those communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have to leave it there, Mr. Payne. I know the time goes very quickly.

[LaVar Payne, Conservative, Medicine Hat, AB]

I had one more.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bruce Stanton]

We'll have to let that wait.

Ms. Crowder will have the last question while the minister is here, and we're going to let her go in about five minutes.

Just on your timeline, Ms. Crowder, go ahead.