Evidence of meeting #34 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was retailers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Madam Minister.
At the very start of your opening remarks, you said that there is apparently no competition among northern retailers. I'd like to know how you plan to handle that.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
We will check the blues.
You also said that the program has not changed in 50 years. Is that correct?
3:50 p.m.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
You said that the Food Mail Program has not been changed in 50 years. Is that what you said?
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
The items in terms of what may be included related to the foods, that was reviewed periodically--to add or to remove them--but in terms of how it's delivered and whatnot, fundamentally it has not changed in the last fifty years in the north.
It was the 1960s when this program was originally introduced, and I can honestly say that my family still lived off the land and travelled by dog teams. A lot has changed in that time. We have airlines. We have a number of airlines travelling throughout the north. There are proposed roads; there are now winter roads. Many changes have evolved in the north, which we need to consider in putting in the efficiencies into this program.
Status quo is not achieving the original intent of the program, and that is to provide affordable food to consumers. At the end of the day, I think people forget that this is to provide people...the seniors who live on fixed income, who don't have credit cards, who are unilingual, who cannot access the program though personal orders or through the stores because oftentimes those prices were not being passed on to them. There was a perceived view that the subsidy was not being passed on.
I could show you a picture of a watermelon in Gjoa Haven for $60. I can tell you there is no subsidy related to that, and seniors--the consumers--can't afford to buy that. So fundamentally we needed to make some changes to ensure that ultimately, at the end of the day, the people who needed the program the most were able to access it: seniors, people on fixed income, the single parents, people on welfare. These are the ones who have the hardest time stretching the dollars in purchasing items, and you can see why.
So the last five years and six years of consulting northerners...and as former health minister in the north, and finance minister, I undertook to consult northerners on this very issue of what was important. And time and time again, it was transparency, passing it on to people who needed it the most, the need to continue to advise how to fix it, country foods. These are recommendations that came from many northerners who wanted to see a program they could access. The intent was great, but it was not being passed on.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Madam Minister, the Canada Post Corporation currently administers the program, but who does it get its mandate from? Who tells it which products it can transport and which products are subsidized? It is my understanding that it's the department.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
Personally, I think Canada Post should be in the business of dealing with transporting mail, not food. But--
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
Madam Minister, this is not what I am asking. The Canada Post Corporation was mandated to manage the Food Mail Program in the North, to obtain transportation at the best possible price, and so on. Who hands down this mandate?
3:55 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
As you know, our expenditure budget includes a separate credit directly allocated to Canada Post. This contribution is managed under a fairly general contract with the department. We also consult Health Canada regularly when changes need to be made to the list of items eligible for subsidy.
Basically, Canada Post receives its directives from the department, but the directives for administering the program are very general. As the minister said, the program's basic design goes back several decades. Even though changes to things like the points of entry and the eligibility of goods have been made, the basic set-up remains the same.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Yvon Lévesque Bloc Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC
I looked carefully at the photos you gave us. Unfortunately, my assistant, who was sitting behind me, took similar photos on visits to the territory. The photos showed not only the price—a high price at that—but also the condition of the food. In fact, the food did not look too appealing anymore.
According to previous testimonies and the Dargo report, I believe it was, when food was delivered to the airports concerned, it could sit there for some time because retailers often could not take the delivery right away. As a result, the food seriously deteriorated.
Would changing the program's name and how the program is applied improve food delivery by plane to retailers?
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Give just a short response, if you can, Minister.
Or you go ahead, Mr. Borbey.
3:55 p.m.
Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Treaties and Aboriginal Government, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
Actually, we have completely changed how the program is managed. From now on, instead of letting Canada Post make decisions about the best delivery conditions for goods, the retailers themselves will place their orders and negotiate with airlines and shipping companies, in the case of goods being delivered by ship. So they can negotiate the best arrangements so that goods can be delivered when retailers are ready to receive them, and not only when Canada Post has a plane that needs to go to that community.
The retailers told us that they could make better business decisions, which would result in better quality and a better price for them.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bruce Stanton
Very well. Thank you.
Go ahead, Ms. Crowder, for seven minutes.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister and staff, for coming.
I think what we've heard from people is that changes were definitely necessary for this program.
I have a couple of really specific questions that came up as a result of testimony, but I wanted a point of clarification first.
The department's website, on May 21, 2010, under “Frequently Asked Questions”, indicated that country foods or traditional foods have actually always been eligible but have been restricted because they typically do not come from eligible entry-point communities.
I would just like this clarified. I think we've heard mixed testimony about whether they used to be eligible.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
--yes--it basically describes the point of entry. The point of entry could be Winnipeg, as an example, or Val-d'Or, or Yellowknife.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
Just on that, if you were to ship country food, such as polar bears or seal--
4 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
--you would have to ship it to Quebec from Nunavut and then ship it back up.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Okay. I just wanted to clarify that. So it was possible but highly unlikely.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU
Yes, by basically identifying those points of entry, you've eliminated country food.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
My understanding is that your department will be considering a possible expansion on country foods. We certainly heard that very clearly from people in the north.