Evidence of meeting #49 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was information.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Again, I am glad to see the expenses added, but it needs to be “schedules of remuneration” so that they are separate. For that reason, we'll oppose it.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Ms. Crowder.
Seeing no additional speakers on the amendment, I call the question.
(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
The amendment is carried, and therefore amendments LIB-11 and LIB-12 will not be votable.
We will go to amendment NDP-10.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
We are suggesting that clause 7 be amended by replacing lines 2 to 5 on page 4 with the following: "within a reasonable time". This is just to allow first nations to respond in a manner that fits within their abilities to do so, so we suggest that we remove the time reference that's currently in the bill.
Conservative
November 5th, 2012 / 5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Oh, pardon me. We are dealing with amendment NDP-10. It's page 29 in the deck.
Go ahead, Mr. Rickford.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
With respect, the phrase “reasonable time” could lead to different interpretations across first nations and could lead to the purposes of the bill not being achieved. A timeframe is required to ensure clarity with respect to the standards that are expected of all first nations. A 120-day timeframe is consistent with the existing requirements under the funding agreements between first nations and the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development for submissions of the documents to the department, and for that reason we will be unable to support this motion.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Seeing no additional speakers to NDP-10, we'll vote.
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
(Clause 7 as amended agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])
On Clause 8—(Internet site — First Nation)
On clause 8, amendment NDP-11 is the first on the docket.
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
We're suggesting that subclause 8(1) now read: 8.(1) A First Nation must make the documents referred to in paragraphs 7(1)(a) to (d) available to its members
(a) if practicable, by publishing them on its Internet site, or by causing them to be published on another Internet site; or
(b) by another form of public disclosure determined to be suitable by the First Nation.
This is in part to deal with the fact that we've always maintained that a first nation's chief and council should be accountable to their own members and not to third party interest groups who have no day-to-day involvement in the governing of the nation. We would argue that there are organizations out there that perhaps don't always come at this with goodwill, and it's more appropriate that these documents be made available to members but not to other outside third parties.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you, Ms. Crowder.
I should make people aware that if NDP-11 passes, NDP-12 as well as LIB-13 would be in conflict and therefore not votable.
Go ahead, Mr. Rickford.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
With respect, Mr. Chair, the purpose of this bill is to provide for the public disclosure of the audited consolidated financial statements and the schedule of remuneration and expenses. Clause 7 already provides for the provision of the documents to members of the first nations, so this amendment would be duplicative.
The phrase “if practicable” in paragraph (a) of the amendment and the phrase “determined to be suitable” in paragraph (b) could lead to very different interpretations and could lead to the purpose of the bill not being achieved.
Furthermore, Mr. Chair, the bill already provides for ways in which first nations who do not have a website can have another organization or the department post these documents on their behalf, which will help to address the practicability of the requirement to publish via the Internet.
For those reasons, we'll be opposing this motion.
NDP
Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
For me the question is that without some safeguard like this in place, the bill in its current form again speaks to the competitiveness that first nations would be faced with first of all, the issue of being able to compete, as well as to the situation of people who may be trying to advance themselves.
If anything, I think we're hindering the ability for some first nations to have that competitiveness. We're trying to push these first nations to put this on other people's websites, other organizations' websites, and I think that is not what first nations wanted.
Therefore, I won't be supporting the government's stance on this, and I'll certainly be supporting the NDP's view.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
Thank you.
Not seeing any additional speakers to NDP-11, we'll move to a vote.
(Amendment negatived)
Now we go to NDP-12. Ms. Crowder, why don't you move NDP-12?
Conservative
NDP
Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC
Sorry.
“To be published on an Internet site within a reasonable time” is again looking at capacity within bands about what they're able to do. There needs to be some latitude, particularly since funding for tribal councils has been reduced, which is one of the avenues where first nations governance get their support.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
I should point out that if NDP-12 is passed, it would rule out the ability for LIB-13 to be moved.
(Amendment negatived [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Next is LIB-13. I do have a ruling as it relates to this so, Ms. Bennett, did you want to move LIB-13?
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
I'm finding all the subjunctives very hard. All the “ifs” are very surprising.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin
I should have been clearer. Because amendments NDP-11 and NDP-12 failed, you're therefore able to move amendment LIB-13.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Thank you.
Maybe lightning will strike a couple of members on the other side.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Well, it would be thorough for me to move it, sir, with its predictable outcome—demise.
