Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on April 8th, 2014

[Andrew Saranchuk]

I think if you were looking at the overall number expended, Mr. Gray had a number.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

It would be $3.5 million.

[Roy Gray]

That's right. So I guess we could do....

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

That's including the salaries of individuals or is that...?

[Andrew Saranchuk]

That includes salaries plus....

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

That includes court costs, no costs?

[Roy Gray]

No, I'm sorry. The $3.5 million includes vote 1 and vote 10, so it includes salaries, operations and maintenance, and contributions.

[Andrew Saranchuk]

It's the average total expended per year, if you will.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

I did a calculation. On average, for 44 individuals at $60,000, that probably would have been around $2.9 million. That's quite a bit just to administer the Indian Act.

[Roy Gray]

Again, we have to bear in mind that some of that $3.5 million is operations and maintenance. Some of that $3.5 million is contributions that flow to first nations communities, organizations.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

In what way are the organizations involved in first nations?

[Roy Gray]

It could be a band or a tribal council. It could be things like first nations hiring a lawyer to do information sessions on preparing wills.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Have first nations communities contested a will asking for that certificate of ownership back?

[Roy Gray]

I'm not sure I understand the question.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

When a person died and they owned a home, had a certificate of ownership, or even when first nations who went overseas and fought and were given certificates of ownership for properties, say, in Saskatchewan or land ownership in a first nations community, that plot of land was either given or sold to other first nations on their home reserve. What happens when first nations communities ask for those lands back once a person passes away and there's no beneficiary? Is it contested between the first nations individual band member and the home first nations reserve or band?

[Roy Gray]

I'm not aware of any cases.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Because what I hear, even on Mistawasis and Muskeg Lake, is there are individuals out there who are asking their first nations community for almost exorbitant amounts of money, over $2 million, to repurchase their land, which really belongs to the band membership.

[Roy Gray]

What we're talking about in the minister's approval of transferred land is interests in land that are recognized by the Indian Act, certificates of possession, for example. If it's band-held land, it's not part of the estate.

Because it's band held, there isn't an individual interest, so that doesn't fall into the pot. It's transferred on the estate.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Clarke.

We're going back to Ms. Crowder.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

One of the things that I didn't see in any of the notes or in.... Has the issue around living wills and powers of attorney come up anywhere?

[Roy Gray]

I'm not aware of that having come up. I don't know. I don't think the minister has any authority, so no.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

I'm curious because in the non-indigenous population, those issues come up.

[Roy Gray]

Looking at my Justice colleague, I would imagine that first nations individuals have the right to make living wills and have the right to.... I don't know whether the powers of attorney would apply.

[Jean Crowder, NDP, Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC]

A living will is really outside this.

[Roy Gray]

Yes.