Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 12th, 2020

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's good to be back.

Again, as we gather here today, we want to begin by acknowledging that we come together on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin people.

Today, as you know, we're presenting on the 2019-20 supplementary estimates (B) and the 2020-21 main estimates for Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, CIRNAC.

I will present on portions related to my work as Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations.

I'm joined by Daniel Watson, deputy minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada; and Annie Boudreau, our new chief of finance, who is also a results and delivery officer.

As you know, CIRNAC is focused on renewing the nation-to-nation, Inuit-Crown, and government-to-government relationships between Canada and first nations, Inuit and Métis. At the core of my mandate is redressing historical wrongs and supporting the acceleration of first nations, Inuit and Métis visions of self-determination.

The department's 2019-20 supplementary estimates (B) presents initiatives totalling approximately $1 billion, and this brings the total appropriations for the department to $7.1 billion. Almost all of this funding—$919 million—is dedicated to the forgiveness of indigenous groups' outstanding comprehensive land claim negotiation loan debt.

Eliminating this loan debt removes a long-standing barrier to concluding comprehensive land claim agreements.

This also signals Canada's commitment to furthering a rights-recognition approach and to concluding these processes in good faith. In fact, indigenous groups that go on to conclude comprehensive land claim agreements will benefit from increased settlement amounts, as these loans would no longer be deducted from the final settlement. Forgiveness of this debt will also provide additional funds, which can be invested in community priorities, such as closing the socio-economic gaps or supporting economic development initiatives.

These supplementary estimates also access $17.5 million to implement the recommendations of the Qikiqtani Truth Commission's report. This funding will support the design, initiation and long-term viability of programming by the Qikiqtani Inuit Association to implement the Qikiqtani Truth Commission's final report recommendations.

I'll now move on to the main estimates. CIRNAC's estimates for 2020-21 will be approximately $4.9 billion.

I do want to highlight that the main estimates, as I think most of you know, are the total of all funding that has already been approved by the Treasury Board.

This is not an estimate of the total spending for the year. It's just what has already been approved by Treasury Board. For instance, we have yet to see the spending that will be outlined in budget 2020.

The Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Act came into effect on July 15, 2019, establishing CIRNAC. The fiscal year 2020-21 will be the first main estimates for the new department. The former department's 2019-20 main estimates were $7 billion, while CIRNAC's total main estimates budget for 2020-21 is $4.9 billion.

The apparent net decrease of $2.1 billion reflects a number of settlements that were paid in the current fiscal year with one-time payments and a transfer of $483.6 million to Indigenous Services Canada, which now is primarily responsible for individual affairs and lands and economic development programs.

This actually reflects a tremendous success with the resolution of long-standing historical wrongs, including the sixties scoop and the McLean day school settlements.

You will see from our main estimates that, for 2020-21, we are putting forth a strong focus and increased spending on negotiation, settlement and implementation of comprehensive claims and self-government agreements.

I would now be happy to take your questions.

Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Would Mr. Vandal like to do his presentation?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Minister of Northern Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I welcome the opportunity to discuss our government's supplementary estimates for the 2019-20 fiscal year, as well as the main estimates for 2020-21 for the Northern Affairs component of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs.

I want to begin by acknowledging that we are meeting on the traditional territory of the Algonquin people.

After a brief presentation, I would be happy to answer any questions from the committee members.

These estimates reflect our government's commitment to creating greater economic growth and a higher quality of life in Canada's north and Arctic in a fiscally responsible manner. I am confident that these estimates demonstrate our government's plan to develop long-term opportunities that protect Canada's rich natural environment and build healthier communities while also protecting the rights and the interests of indigenous peoples.

The supplementary estimates include an additional investment of $12.5 million for Nutrition North Canada, including $8 million to create a harvester support grant, which is designed to be indigenous led and will promote local harvesting of foods for distribution to more than 100 isolated communities.

We are continuing to work in partnership with key stakeholders and partners to ensure that the unique interests, priorities and circumstances of all northerners are acknowledged. In fact, we've seen first-hand how direct engagement with indigenous and community partners has resulted in significant improvements to the nutrition north program in 2018 and 2019.

We are always ready to listen to northerners on the importance of traditional food and on the way to better deal with the growing costs of hunting and harvesting in isolated communities. In addition to the health benefits of fresh local products, the participation in hunting and harvesting activities is an essential element of community well-being and cultural continuity.

In all, the main estimates include $530 million in spending related to the Northern Affairs component of the department. An amount of $108.5 million for Nutrition North Canada is included in the main estimates to continue this important initiative next fiscal year. This funding will address increased subsidy rates and a growing list of subsidized items that includes more culturally relevant and family-friendly items such as the ingredients important for making bannock, as well as infant formula and diapers.

Almost one half of the main estimates total—$253.5 million—is allocated to the ongoing work of the northern contaminated sites program. This includes the funding of the northern abandoned mine reclamation program announced in budget 2019.

As the committee is aware, the Government of Canada is responsible for the management of a portfolio of contaminated sites across the north, the result of private sector mining exploration and resource development activities that were abandoned by their former operators when they became insolvent. These complex projects present serious ongoing risks to the environment as well as human health and safety. The Government of Canada has accepted fiscal responsibility for this historical contamination and is legally obliged to manage these sites.

Together, these and other initiatives, including $52.1 million for climate change adaptation, clean energy and other measures to enhance environmental sustainability are intended to ensure northern lands and waters are healthy for future generations, while helping to secure jobs for northerners and indigenous partners.

In closing, I would note that $96.6 million for northern and Arctic governance and partnerships and $18.4 million for northern regulatory and legislative frameworks are also included in the main estimates. These funds will support the implementation of the Arctic and northern policy framework, including co-development and implementation of an Inuit Nunangat policy as we work towards the full implementation of Inuit land claims agreements.

I thank you for the time you have given me this morning, and I would now be pleased to answer any questions from the committee members.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much, Ministers.

We go now, in our six-minute round, to Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Ministers, for your appearance again at committee. It's always a pleasure.

Minister Bennett, I'll start with you. In the last paragraph of your remarks, you say:

You will see from our main estimates that for 2020-21, we are putting a strong focus on and increased spending for negotiation, settlement and implementation of comprehensive claims and self-government agreements.

If I look to your main estimates here, on page 62, there's about $2 billion here for grants to first nations to settle specific claims, to your comment.

I'm just curious, and maybe you could clarify for me. Is this money set aside to actually settle these claims or is it more for lawyers and consultants and that kind of thing?

That's just a point for clarification.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

That money is to settle the claims. In the new process, we have nation-rebuilding money; we have negotiation-preparation money, and we have the money that supports nations in their discussions with Canada. As you know, in the past, those things were done through loans, as we explained before. Then when the claim was settled, Canada took back the money that was in the loan. The frustration was that they spent 20 years to be $30 million in debt, and then $30 million was taken away from what ended up being the comprehensive claim settlement.

Now the money that's set aside for settlements is actually for the settlements, and we, as Canada, believe that now our job is to support the financing of those conversations.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay. I'm actually glad to hear that.

Is there any way to isolate how much is for the negotiations, or what the breakdown of that $2.2 billion is? I just want to be 100% clear on that.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Sure, go ahead.

[Daniel Watson, Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

To the extent that it involves departmental staff that would be travelling or being paid salaries, that would be captured in our operating monies, so it's inside the operating budget of the department and not included in this specific claims.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay, perfect. Thank you for that clarification.

If the numbers I'm reading are correct, we're looking at about a 66% increase in overall funding since 2015-16. But the PBO report out this morning on the estimates is saying that “It is difficult to determine whether services have improved as a result of increased total budgetary spending.”

Do you have any indicators to refute that in terms of the fact that the PBO is saying that increased budgetary allotments don't actually improve on-reserve living?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

As we were explaining, some of the increases there are actually for settlements. Whether it's the Qikiqtani Truth Commission or the sixties scoop or the McLean day school, these are actually settlements that the government has paid out and will pay out. What I described before—spending 20 years to get $30 million into debt and not getting a final agreement—was pretty frustrating and it was not very attractive to nations to participate.

Now with the B.C. policy in particular, which has eliminated, “cede, surrender, and extinguishment" and these things being done through loans, we now have over half of the first nations at a table. Some of them just want to discuss child and family services. For some it's education, and for coastal first nations it's the fishery. We are getting more and more people to the table to be able to assert their jurisdiction and work on how they want to implement their section 35 rights. That includes the Inuit land claim groups that are working towards real self-determination and some of the Métis groups, and over 400 first nations.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

I'm just looking at your departmental plan now, if I could switch quickly to that. It shows that your ministry has met 18 of its 48 goals. Some of these missed targets have been rolled over into future years.

Is there a specific plan to address some of these goals that keep getting rolled over into future years, rather than kind of aspiring to reach them eventually?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Absolutely. One of our goals is to have more indigenous employment in the department. We know that in the split of the department a lot of the indigenous public servants were on the services side. We want more indigenous participation on the relationship side. I think there are issues.

We're at 99%, I think, in Indian residential school settlements. We want to get that done and wound down. What's exciting about this year is that we actually have been able to achieve some of the difficult things like sixties scoop and McLean day schools settlements as well as the Qikiqtani Truth Commission. Those were the priorities of our partners, and we've been able to get those things done.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Ministers, for your presence here today. Moreover, thank you for your long-standing mutual commitments to an authentic consultative process and a co-development strategy.

My questions will focus primarily on Nutrition North Canada. I was happy to see there is $8 million going directly to the harvesters support grant program. That's something they identified. When I referred to that consultative co-development process, that's what I meant.

There was a question that arose about the impacts of not just physical health but also mental health with respect to the opportunity to harvest food traditionally, the experience that goes with that and regaining some of the lost social knowledge and the opportunities for social cohesion.

Can you provide some insight, Minister Vandal, on precisely what those monies will go to? If possible, leave a little time for a follow-up question.

Thank you.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Sure, absolutely. We have been hearing directly from northerners and people living in the Arctic for a long time that food insecurity is a huge issue in the north. Nutrition North Canada has attempted to be part of the solution to the food insecurity issue. We have to acknowledge, first of all, that food insecurity is a huge issue, much larger than one program.

What is impressive about the harvesters program was that it was co-developed with Inuit rights-holders because it was clear that the rising cost of hunting and harvesting in isolated communities was a real issue, as was the rising cost of everything in the north. It is a program that offers a subsidy to northerners and Inuit for hunting, harvesting, and fishing so that more traditional foods are accessible to their families. It's something that was co-developed.

This week I had the opportunity to meet the chairperson of the Nutrition North Advisory Board, Nellie Cournoyea. She gave me quite a history about Nutrition North Canada, the challenges and the opportunities. I think that's one of the really positive aspects that came out of co-development. I think the era of solutions for the north coming from the south are over. We want solutions by and for the north.

There's $8 million in the supplementary estimates for Nutrition North. I believe there's close to a $100 million in the main estimates for Nutrition North. In there, there's the harvesters program, and people are eagerly awaiting its rollout.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Can you elaborate a little on the partnership opportunities with other organizations? I'm thinking about organizations like the Canadian Rangers, the indigenous guardians pilot program and other indigenous-led organizations that teach some of those skills.

If you can, please be a little more specific on what the subsidies will cover and how they will impact the greater nutrition north program.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

For sure.

I think there's flexibility built into the program.

In fact, I just concluded a meeting with the premier of the Northwest Territories, Caroline Cochrane, who is in town. We talked about nutrition north, and she asked how flexible the program is because they would like to put breakfast programs in schools. They would like to talk about community freezers. There's that sort of flexibility built into the program. As I said, it's co-developed with Inuit rights holders. So they're at the table. If there are opportunities for more partnership and more synergy, we are 100% for that.

As to how the money will be administered, perhaps Diane could speak on that a little bit.

[Diane Lafleur, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs]

Sure. I'd be happy to.

Part of the co-development process was actually not just the design of the program but also the funding allocation, recognizing that we are not best placed to determine where the money should be allocated. For example, in Nunavut, the funding will be administered by NTI because they have the connections to the harvesters groups, the hunters associations and things like that. They know who is best placed to actually do the harvesting and gathering, and they know what their needs are. We haven't been specific about what exactly the money will be spent on. We're leaving it to the organizations on the ground, who have a much better understanding of what the specific need is. That's why we're confident the program is going to actually meet those needs.

There is also funding that has been allocated to CanNor that will be to be undertaking some pilot projects going forward looking at solutions for food security beyond just the harvesters support grant—things like community freezers, breakfast programs, harvesting and growing things locally, and things like that. That's part of the solution, too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks very much.

That's your time.

Ms. Bérubé, you have six minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I would like to hear your thoughts on the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, but also on land claims.

Your government has committed to introduce a new bill to implement that declaration. Don't you think that, by letting the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples languish, your government risks creating conditions for similar crises to arise?

In the same vein, don't you think that the crisis that just occurred forces us to review our approach toward indigenous peoples' land rights?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Minister, it's not on the supplementals, but I'll give you a chance to reply.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

That's great.

I think that the commitment taken toward our platform to introduce co-developed legislation to implement the declaration is a real solution.

The declaration will provide communities and industry with certainty. When it's a yes, it's a yes, and when it's a no, it's a no. As soon as an idea for a project arises, first nations, Inuit and Métis people must be consulted. Then they have the option to approve it or not, and they can talk about their concerns.

The industry, governments, as well as first nations, Inuit and Métis must find solutions together.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Minister, the Bloc Québécois would be prepared to accelerate things if your government was to introduce a bill for implementing the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. I am sure that my colleagues from the third opposition party would also be prepared to do so.

It is important for first nations. Why must we always wait? The longer we wait, the more likely it becomes that the bill will die on the Order Paper. What are we waiting for? What is the government waiting for to move forward, Minister?

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

We are really sorry that the declaration did not receive the Senate's support in the last Parliament.

The bill is developed in collaboration with first nations, Inuit and Métis. There is a parliamentary process to follow. According to the Liberal platform, the bill will be introduced in Parliament this year.