Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on March 12th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thanks.

I've given a lot of leeway on this. We're here about the estimates. We're going to be voting on those estimates in a short while. If you have any more questions about the estimates, that would be appreciated.

Mr. Zimmer, you are next on a five-minute round.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will ask questions about that.

I think the pressing issue right now is the coronavirus. Even members of Parliament are self-containing, trying to keep the spread to a minimum. That said, we've already asked the previous minister questions about those very issues, so we'll move on to the estimates.

I was up in Yukon a few weeks ago. I have before me an announcement from 2017, where the “Prime Minister...announced that the Government of Canada is committed to contributing up to $247,381,000 to the Yukon Resource Gateway Project.”

Minister Vandal, it's troubling that what we heard when we were up there talking to members of the government in Yukon was that only $277,000 of a potential $360-million project has been spent in the last three years.

Can you explain why?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

And the original name of the project was what?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

It is the resource gateway project, specifically.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

The resource gateway project.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

I understand, Minister, that you got the job, I think, a few weeks before I got this job, so it's a big file, a big area, to get caught up with.

I wouldn't mind having a briefing, if you could find out why. I think even the residents in Yukon are wondering that same thing.

Numbers sound great when they're announced, and there's an expectation that it will get delivered on the ground, as you would know and expect in your riding.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Of course.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

The people of Yukon are expecting that project to be delivered.

I'll move on to my next question.

I asked a question in the House of Commons, Minister, about the devolution in Nunavut. We saw the comment a few weeks ago by Premier Savikataaq. I want to read his quote; it really says it all. It reads:

The creation of any new conservation and protected areas in Nunavut would have a significant impact on our ability to manage our lands and resources, and carry out negotiations for decision-making, leading to potentially very serious consequences.

That was on February 20, so it's fairly recent.

The reason this matters so much to the premier, and I can relate to that, being from northern B.C., is that we had a recent announcement of a caribou closure that's dramatically affecting our region. The rationale was that if we were to close an area to industrial development and maybe other things such as skidooing, ATVs and those sorts of things, that would somehow increase the population of caribou. It sounds like a great idea. I think two million acres have been closed.

But we saw and heard from experts that it wasn't necessary. They're saying that in certain areas, such as Tumbler Ridge, the caribou populations have been increasing, without any closures to change that. We also saw that industrial development isn't even there in two areas in British Columbia. Tweedsmuir Provincial Park is an example—no industrial development, but no caribou.

I understand the premier's concerns that closures don't necessarily do anything, whether it's closures of marine areas or interior land areas. I think what the premier and I are concerned about is the ever-increasing number. Right now I think the total closures amount to 12%. Your government and your Prime Minister have said that you want to move to 30% closures across the country by 2030. That's in 10 years. They want to more than double the protected areas. Guess where those areas come from? They aren't in Toronto or Vancouver; they're in my backyard. We produce natural resource development jobs. Indigenous jobs and prosperity come from all of that.

I want to give you time to answer the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

You have only 50 seconds left.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

The premier wants devolution to occur first. What is your response?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I've been to Nunavut twice in the last month. I've met with the premier on a couple of occasions. We've had good conversations about devolution. I've met with the leaders of Inuit rights holders, NTI, a stakeholder in devolution.

We agree that devolution needs to occur. The heart and soul of devolution is giving more control over land and waters to the people who live in the territory. I think it's important to get to devolution quickly so they can have control over the protected areas.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Could we get a commitment on no more protected areas until devolution occurs? That's what the premier is asking for.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

It's something that came up in discussions with the premier. It's an ongoing discussion between our governments as well as the Inuit rights holders.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

We're at time. Thank you.

Ms. Zann, you have five minutes.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We have often heard that the effects of climate change in the north are felt at a rate that's three times that of the rest of Canada. This is really concerning for any of us who are paying attention to climate change, including in Nova Scotia. We often mention this. Obviously, this has a huge effect on infrastructure but also on the traditional ways of life for many northerners.

I understand that Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs Canada has programming to fund climate change mitigation and adaptation strategies in the north. First of all, can you explain to us why scientists are saying it's happening three times faster in the north? Can you also detail some of these programs?

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Thank you for that very important question. You're right on that the north is warming at three times the rate of the south. It's something that's very concerning. In my new role as northern affairs minister, I have been to the Yukon, I have been to the Northwest Territories, and I have been to Nunavut twice since Christmas. You could see the evidence on the ground. I took a ride from Yellowknife to Behchoko. The highway had lots of bumps on it, I believe because of permafrost melting. Permafrost melting is an incredibly important issue that's affecting all buildings, residential and commercial. It's affecting mining. The shoreline is eroding.

We have to do a better job of making sure we address these issues. That's why I'm very proud to say that there is over $32 million in the main estimates to support community and regional clean energy projects that reduce reliance on diesel for electricity and for heating. We have adaptation projects in northern and indigenous communities, such as risk and vulnerability assessments, adaptation planning and community-based climate monitoring initiatives. This money will also support the meaningful engagement of indigenous peoples on climate policy, through national indigenous organizations as well as regional organizations, to monitor changes in climate and to plan and implement adaptation measures, which are incredibly important for the people who live there.

We are investing $4 million in funding through the northern REACHE program for indigenous and northern communities to plan and construct renewable energy and energy efficiency projects, as well as to support capacity building. The program supports northern communities, governments and organizations to reduce diesel fuel use for community heating and electricity. We will also provide close to $10 million for the climate change preparedness in the north program to support territorial governments and northern communities to plan for and implement adaptation measures to prepare for a climate that's changing.

We're providing, through these estimates this morning, $9 million in funding for the first nations adaptation program on the impacts of climate change, including flooding. We are providing to indigenous communities $6 million for the indigenous community-based climate monitoring program. The program supports indigenous peoples in monitoring climate impacts in their communities and on their traditional lands. As well, we are providing $5 million in funding through the engaging indigenous peoples in climate policy program to help them at bilateral distinctions-based, senior-level tables with the Crown.

You're right that this is the defining issue of our time. It is really the underlying issue of everything that's occurring in the north. We are addressing it, but we need to continue the work we're doing.

[Lenore Zann, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

Perhaps I can jump in here. Twenty years ago, when I was a new member of Parliament and a member of the Arctic caucus, we were in Tuktoyaktuk. We went into the community freezer, which they dig into the permafrost, where you go down a little ladder. There was water trickling down the wall of the freezer. It was trickling down the permafrost. So the science is one thing, but you can see it before your very eyes. That's what the elders have been telling us with their indigenous knowledge.

I was very pleased to know, when we were at the opening of the highway from Inuvik to Tuktoyaktuk, that sensors were being put down into that whole highway—by the University of Manitoba, I believe—so that they can actually measure in real time what's happening to that permafrost.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bob Bratina]

Thank you very much.

We have a five-minute question round with Mr. Vidal.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Mr. Schmale is taking my time.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you.

Sorry to keep bouncing around on you, Chair. We'll keep you on your toes. It's fun.

Minister Bennett, I want to pick up where we left off last time, if we could, in terms of the departmental plan and the goals that were set and not met, that type of thing. In your departmental plan, there were eight goals that didn't specify targets or target dates. I can go over them if you want, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about, the eight. Is there a reason why there were no targets set or unspecified dates to achieve those targets?

I can list some, if you want.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Yes, why don't you list them?

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay, one is “Percentage of First Nations that exercise options to collect, manage and/or access revenues held in trust”. Another is the “Number of litigation claims concluded”. Others are “First Nations communities undertaking solid waste management improvement projects”, “Percentage of first nations communities where non-government revenues represent 25% or more of total revenues” and “Number of indigenous businesses created and/or expanded”, there is no target or target date. There are a few more, but I have little time.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, Toronto—St. Paul's, ON]

In the what, by when and how, I think the deputy does that.

So why don't you just take it, Deputy?

[Daniel Watson]

I'm very happy to. Thank you for the question.

I'm happy to provide a fuller debrief on this afterwards, if that's useful to the committee. On a number of the different targets that we set, the realities will be very different for different communities, but they'll also be very much of an ongoing nature. You talk about waste management and things like that. These are issues that we will have to deal with for a very long period of time, so in some instances, we do not have a single date because we don't expect everybody to be at exactly the same position at the same time, and we have to work with the communities to figure out exactly what it is they want to achieve by a different point in time.

I can come back with a fuller briefing on exactly why we've set—