Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2024

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Is there any consideration of recruiting specifically from the rangers program? We've spoken to a number of rangers. It's certainly a group that impressed me and seemed to be a potentially good pool for policing services.

[A/Commr Warren Brown]

It's funny you should ask that question. The brother of one of the IPTP cadets attended his graduation, and he was a graduate of that program, so he and I had a discussion. I think, along with other initiatives we have locally in communities, including our indigenous communities, that is well under way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Powlowski.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for your presentation.

I was pleased to hear the Conservatives' question, but the window is closing fast and the bill is slow in coming. If the government were to change, wouldn't you feel that all the work you've done has been in vain? Aren't you afraid of running out of time, given the impending end of the current Parliament?

I'm curious to hear your comments on that.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Lemire, thank you for your question.

You won't be surprised to hear me say that I don't share the pessimistic view that we're on the verge of a change in government. I do not want that, as it would be a setback in terms of support for indigenous peoples, and not just when it comes to issues related to the administration of justice. However, I understand your sentiment. I'm teasing you, of course, but I would have rather talked about parliamentary timelines and the general election, which would take place in 12 or 15 months, after Parliament is dissolved.

Having said that, I am fully aware of the timeline. That is underpinning my current conversation with the national chief of the Assembly of First Nations. I also understand the objective of wanting a bill that clearly defines the essential nature and the recurrence of funding, as I said.

That said, your political party is very interested in matters of provincial jurisdiction. I will not hide the fact that it is quite a challenge to find the right way for the Parliament of Canada to legislate in this matter while taking into account the provincial justice systems and police services. I am still very optimistic following my conversations with my counterpart Mr. Bonnardel, who wants to be a partner. The Sûreté du Québec, which is showing a lot of good will, is also an important partner for us in this regard. I just need to find a way of doing things that meets the essential and important objective, but that doesn't put us in a position where we could be criticized in court for trying to legislate in an area of provincial jurisdiction.

I'm not saying this to provoke you. I admit that, in other cases, you may tell us that we are not sensitive enough, but—

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. LeBlanc, I'll be honest with you. From what I hear on the ground, there are indeed a lot of discussions between the federal and provincial governments about the establishment of these indigenous police forces. The problem is that not enough discussions are being held with the indigenous communities themselves, especially at the federal level. First nations are thirsty for information on what's happening with the bill and on other issues.

We know that the calls for justice for missing and murdered indigenous women and girls have been numerous. There are calls for a transformation of policing and the development of legislation in collaboration with indigenous police forces. That element is critical. Minister Hajdu had moved in that direction, but the central question remains: When will the bill be introduced to provide for these fundamental changes so that indigenous police services in communities would be recognized as essential, and funded accordingly?

That has an impact, especially in my region, where discussions are under way to create a regional indigenous police force for all of Abitibi-Témiscamingue. This is an emergency, in particular for the Long Point community in Winneway, which no longer has its own police service.

When will we be able to take action?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you for the question.

I have had the same encouraging information about the willingness to train this regional indigenous police force in your Abitibi-Témiscamingue region. That is precisely what we would like to see legislated.

Your Conservative colleague quoted my predecessor, who may have given too specific of a deadline. Not surprisingly, we missed that deadline. I will be careful, but I can tell you that I understand the urgency. I am aware of the issue of parliamentary timelines, which you rightly raised. I hope to have some encouraging results from my conversation today with the national chief. I will continue this work until we get there, but I understand the urgency, as do my colleagues here with me today.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would invite you to put your political weight behind it, Mr. LeBlanc; we know that this weight is considerable.

The government must prioritize indigenous issues. All too often, bills dealing with indigenous issues, such as Bill C-61, Bill C-38 and many others, are not prioritized by the government in the legislative agenda. If we want to go all the way, we will have to prioritize them.

Thank you very much. That's all my time.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you for your comment, Mr. Lemire.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lemire.

Next up we have Ms. Idlout for six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Chair.

I would like to thank all of you. You will be leaving soon, and you didn't have much time, so thanks for warning us.

According to the Auditor General's report, only 38% of the communities in this program had a dedicated officer on-site. The terms of the program require 100% capacity. Why is the RCMP not meeting its obligations?

[English]

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I have a point of order.

Mr. Chair, we're not getting translation from Inuktitut.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Mr. Powlowski, just so you know, you will need a headset to speak.

We'll just pause for a quick second to make sure that the translation is coming through.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Chair, in response to the interpreter on the French channel, the interpretation is working very well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Ms. Idlout, it seems to be working. You can continue.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

According to the Auditor General's report, only 38% of the communities are participating in this program. Only 38% of the communities had a dedicated officer on-site. The term of the program requires 100% capacity. Why is the RCMP not meeting its obligations?

[English]

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

That was also one of the things I spoke to the Auditor General about, and when I read the report, it was obviously a source of concern as it would be for you and the people who you and other colleagues represent.

Again, in order to provide reliable, precise information, because I understand the importance for the communities, perhaps Assistant Commissioner Brown could provide some precision.

The good news is that there are 443 positions contemplated in this agreement. At the time of the audit, there were 60 vacancies. That number has been cut in half. It's down to 30. It should be zero, and we're working to get there.

Perhaps Assistant Commissioner Brown could provide some specific answers to the precise communities that you're referring to where there were vacancies.

[A/Commr Warren Brown]

This is a very complex matter whereby the provinces and the territories are responsible for the administration of the police. I noted in the Auditor General's report that this is clearly work that the RCMP needs to improve upon, and we intend to do that with our counterparts at Public Safety Canada.

We're not a signatory to the community tripartite agreements, CTAs, and it's our experience in some communities that there's perhaps not a great understanding of what enhanced policing is versus core policing. The RCMP welcomes the opportunity to be part of that table when CTAs are renewed. As the minister responded, out of the 146 CTAs we have nationally with 443 members, we are seeing significant vacancies in other areas as well. Unfortunately, oftentimes when there are limited numbers of members in small remote communities, they have to provide a core policing function as well, so they're not adhering to 100% of their policing time. We have to get better at that, so we agree with the Auditor General on that. However, with the optimistic and robust approach we have for recruiting, I believe that we can meet that measure in short time.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you for responding to my last question.

I just want to remind everyone that in Nunavut our police are not present in every community, and it affects us in the community and in the territory. Kugluktuk, for instance, and Taloyoak, Arviat and Iqaluit, those communities have headquarters. They start work at 8:30 and they complete the day at 4:30. When they are given a call during those hours they will respond, but in the evening, after hours—after 4:30 in the evening and until the next morning—if you call for the RCMP nobody will respond. Your call will be directed to the Iqaluit headquarters. Once your call is directed to the headquarters in Iqaluit, the recipient does not speak Inuktitut and does not understand the caller. Many people are appreciative that we have policing for our safety, but their hours do not serve the community 24-7, as they should.

[English]

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, Ms. Idlout, thank you for raising that issue. It's obviously very concerning. I'm happy to work with the leadership of the RCMP to see what we can do, and to work with you to ensure that circumstance is mitigated and corrected.

I'm encouraged by conversations I've had with the Premier of Nunavut. I'm also the intergovernmental affairs minister, so I have the opportunity in that function to talk to the territorial premiers, and I remember very clearly the desire of the Government of Nunavut to work with the RCMP. The RCMP has a footprint in many parts—not all parts, as you noted—of your vast territory, but if there are ways that we can work to ensure that footprint is more effective...and I'm obviously particularly sensitive to the linguistic piece that you raised. I'm happy to ensure that we follow up directly with you and ensure that we speak directly to the communities you identified as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout.

We now move to our second round.

First, for five minutes, we have Mr. Shields.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here today. Minister, you have a long history of working with government, so here are a couple of questions for you. Do you know the length of the tripartite agreement that's currently in place?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

My understanding is that they vary among different communities, so I don't—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

I'm talking about the one that you and I know in our provinces, the tripartite agreement. How long is that agreement—how many years?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

The framework agreement is a 10-year agreement, but there are different.... Is that your question? I want to make sure I—