Evidence of meeting #111 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Nadine Leblanc  Interim Chief Financial Officer and Senior Vice-President, Policy, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
Commissioner Warren Brown  Indigenous and Support Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Noon

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Chair.

First of all, I'd like to remind everyone, it is my understanding that the Auditor General's report is to look at indigenous housing. It doesn't mean Inuit. It has no Inuit content, nor does it cover any Nunavut housing or Inuit housing needs. I know that.

Minister Hajdu, I understand that we are not involved with Nunavut on this issue, but I also represent Nunavut Inuit, and we talk about indigenous people. We talk about first nations and Métis.

The Auditor General—

[Translation]

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to have to raise a point of order, but I'm not getting the French interpretation.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Ms. Idlout, we'll pause for a second just to make sure the interpretation is working.

Ms. Idlout, it's working. You can continue.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

I ask you now, Minister Hajdu, on May 27 you responded that the Auditor General would be meeting with you.

[Translation]

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Pardon me, Mr. Chair, but there's no interpretation into French.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

I'll pause one more minute.

Okay, Ms. Idlout, you may continue.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

I'm not asking questions; I am making a statement that you stated the mandate of the government and that you did not agree with the Auditor General on first nations homes and housing. Why did you not agree with the indigenous first nations people?

[Translation]

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

I sincerely apologize, Mr. Chair, but I hear Ms. Idlout speaking in Inuktitut. There's still no interpretation into French.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Let's pause for one second.

Mr. Lemire, I think there's a problem with your connection, because we can hear the interpretation into French here, in the meeting room.

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry, but I'm connected to the House channel and I selected French interpretation. There may be a technical problem, but it's not my Internet connection, since I'm using an official House device. I can hear Ms. Idlout very clearly, but I can't hear the French interpretation.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

The problem may be with Zoom, then. We're going to fix it.

12:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Thank you.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Go ahead one more time, Ms. Idlout. You still have about 30 seconds.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Why did you not agree with the Auditor General's report? There were some things you questioned. Can I understand why you did not agree with some of the reports?

[English]

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Patty Hajdu Liberal Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

First of all, I think in general we agreed with the majority of the Auditor General's reports, and I think that the focus on the gap for Inuit-specific housing is an area where we have recognized a gap in the Auditor General's report, although she specifically indicated that it was not included for the reason that she said in the report.

That's why we supported a study with ITK on the housing gap that was Inuit specific. In addition, we have seen budgeted amounts in 2018, 2022 and 2024 through Crown-Indigenous Relations, which is dispensing that money in partnership with Inuit to close the housing gap in the north. That amount is about $500 million with an additional allotment in 2024.

We will continue to focus on Inuit-specific solutions.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you very much, Minister Hajdu.

I'm afraid we're going to have to end it at that point.

I do want to thank Minister Hajdu and Minister Fraser.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

I have a point of order.

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

I will excuse the witnesses while we suspend very quickly.

Okay, you have a point of order.

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Lori Idlout NDP Nunavut, NU

I thought I explained explicitly that I understood that we're studying first nations housing, the Auditor General's report on housing for first nations. I explicitly explained that I know that this is not related to Inuit, Inuit lands or housing for Nunavut.

I was asking for an explanation as to why they disagree with the Auditor General's report and to explain, to clarify, in what areas they disagree.

Can I have the permission of the committee to have a written response?

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Yes, absolutely, Ms. Idlout.

With that, we're going to suspend shortly as our next panel is getting set up here. We'll return in a couple of minutes.

Mr. Lemire, I saw that you had your hand up as well. Is this about translation?

12:10 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Yes, I didn't want to interrupt the conversation again, but I only got interpretation at the end, with the minister's response as well.

Thank you very much to the interpreters. I appreciate their work, and I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

I'd like to call this meeting back to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Wednesday, April 10, the committee is meeting to continue its study of “Report 3: First Nations and Inuit Policing Program”, of the 2024 reports of the Auditor General of Canada.

I would like to welcome our witness, the Honourable Dominic LeBlanc, Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs, who is flanked by officials Shawn Tupper and Chris Moran from the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness.

Also, we have Deputy Commissioner Bryan Larkin and Assistant Commissioner Warren Brown from the RCMP.

With that, Minister LeBlanc, I will pass the floor to you for five minutes for your opening.

12:15 p.m.

Beauséjour New Brunswick

Liberal

Dominic LeBlanc LiberalMinister of Public Safety

Mr. Chair and colleagues, thank you for inviting me and thank you for introducing my colleagues from the department and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, who have joined me.

Mr. Chair, just by way of an opening, I know you invited me for an hour and I'm happy to be here for an hour. I was here on time, but you were running a bit late. As I mentioned to some of you, I am seeing the national chief of indigenous policing on this very issue in my office in the Confederation Building at 1:15, so you'll understand that at 1:05 or 1:10 I will excuse myself, so as to not keep her waiting.

Colleagues, it is significant that today is the fifth anniversary—I just wanted to note, in the sombre moment that it is—of the release of the report on missing and murdered indigenous women and girls. It struck me when I was preparing for this conversation on the weekend that we would be here on this very day.

I appreciate the opportunity to speak about the Auditor General of Canada’s performance audit report on the first nations and Inuit policing program, or FNIPP, and I thank Auditor General Karen Hogan and her team for the report and their work. I had quite a productive discussion with her, by the way.

As you know, the FNIPP is an important program that aims to increase access to dedicated, culturally responsive policing services in first nations and Inuit communities, consistent with provincial and territorial jurisdiction over administration of justice, including policing operations.

The Government of Canada welcomes the Auditor General's recommendations. These come at a fitting time, as Public Safety Canada is currently exploring ways to modernize its programming for indigenous people. The report will help guide the department, and partners like the RCMP, as it looks to improve the delivery and impact of the FNIPP, including through measurable results, in the communities it serves.

Our efforts to act on the report's recommendations are already under way. That's what I was able to assure the Auditor General in my constructive conversation with her.

For instance, Public Safety Canada has recently updated its internal structure to streamline the delivery of the program related to indigenous issues, programs and policy work within our department's mandate.

The Government of Canada has also committed to tabling legislation that recognizes first nations police services as essential services, as soon as is feasible, and we're well on our way to making this happen. That is the subject of a conversation that I have had with the national chief and other partners, but I'm going to continue that conversation, as I said, a little later this afternoon as well. In fact, over this past winter indigenous-led regional and national engagement sessions have been held on proposed legislative options to co-develop federal legislation to recognize first nations police services as essential services.

This engagement builds on the ongoing collaboration that our department has fostered with first nations and subject matter experts, obviously, like the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association and the First Nations Police Governance Council, as well as, of course, provincial and territorial partners.

Public Safety has also revisited the program management relationship with the RCMP to more readily consider and integrate officer availability in program management decisions, which was the subject of some of the Auditor General's fair comments.

The RCMP is continuing to work with communities to improve cultural awareness and practices as they reaffirm their commitment to keeping indigenous communities safe, including through the first nations and Inuit policing program. I have had reassuring and constructive conversations with Commissioner Mike Duheme and I have a lot of confidence in the leadership of Assistant Commissioner Brown and Deputy Commissioner Larkin, who are with me today.

In conclusion, the Government of Canada will continue to work closely with first nations and Inuit partners, law enforcement agencies, and provinces and territories.

The provinces and territories make the decisions on the level of policing needs in their jurisdiction, identify priorities for this program and provide 48% of the costs. As you well know, the federal government then cost-matches the remaining 52%.

In advancing this work, it is important that we respect the constitutional division of power. It is a challenge in this context, but in my opinion, the challenge is not insurmountable.

We look forward to continuing to work with indigenous communities that rely on these services. It is their security and their safety that should guide all these efforts.

Thank you very much.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler

Thank you, Minister.

With that, we will go into our first round of questioning starting with Mr. Melillo, for six minutes.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Eric Melillo Conservative Kenora, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

I guess we will start with an easy one right off the hop to get into this, Minister. Just a simple yes or no, do you believe that first nations policing is essential?