Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 11th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Good afternoon, everyone.

I would like to call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the fifth meeting of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

We're meeting to continue our study on barriers to indigenous economic development, and today we have two panels.

On the first panel we have Minister Hajdu, Minister of Indigenous Services Canada, and Minister Vandal, Minister of Northern Affairs.

Supporting the ministers in their appearances today are the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, the Department for Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, the Department of Indigenous Services, the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario and Prairies Economic Development Canada.

The second panel will consist of Adam Jourdain, deputy executive director of the Corporation développement économique Nikanik,

Dawn Madahbee Leach from the National Indigenous Economic Development Board and Clint David from the Nunasi Corporation.

I want to ask everyone on site to comply with the health measures. We're very familiar with them.

Today interpretation services are available in English, French and Inuktitut. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately. The “raise hand” feature at the bottom of the screen can be used at any time if you wish to speak or alert the chair.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in the committee room. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name, and when speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

I'll remind you that all comments by members should be addressed through the chair.

Each minister is invited to speak for five minutes. This will be followed by a round of questions.

The first round of questions will allow members six minutes each. The order and the time for questioning for subsequent rounds will be as follows: Conservative, five minutes; Liberal, five minutes; Bloc, two and a half minutes; New Democratic Party, two and a half minutes; Conservative, five minutes; and Liberal, five minutes. If time expires during the round of questioning, we will complete the order.

I would now like to invite Minister Hajdu to start us off.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Indigenous Services]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. This is my first appearance before the committee, and I'm honoured to be here with you.

I'm joining you today from the Robinson-Superior Treaty territory, specifically Fort William First Nation traditional territory. Of course, many contributions were made to this area over generations by Métis people.

One of this government's highest priorities from the outset has been to build a renewed relationship with indigenous peoples in Canada. I'm continuing to build that relationship. I'm prioritizing equity, truth and self-determination as principles that are integral to a strong and healthy relationship.

Indigenous Services Canada works collaboratively with first nations, Inuit and Métis partners across the country. Our goal is to ensure a consistent, high‑quality and distinctions‑based approach to the delivery of services to indigenous communities.

At the heart of our work is the steadfast belief in substantive equality of opportunity and in outcomes. Canada will be stronger when everyone has a fair chance to succeed, and this includes advancing self-determination through strong economic growth and ensuring that business supports are accessible to indigenous peoples.

All communities need a strong economic foundation to grow and prosper, but we recognize that there are extra barriers to indigenous economic development. I'll talk about some of those barriers here today and ways to overcome them because, to work together on solutions, we actually have to understand what the problems are.

What are these barriers? First of all, lack of access to capital is one of the biggest challenges faced by indigenous businesses and can prevent indigenous entrepreneurs from starting or growing businesses.

To improve access to capital, the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association administers the aboriginal entrepreneurship program, which provides about $25 million per year of equity capital to enable indigenous entrepreneurs to obtain affordable commercial loans. The aboriginal entrepreneurship program is also supporting the new $150-million indigenous growth fund. This indigenous-led and designed fund is a key economic recovery initiative, which will provide indigenous businesses with a fully independent source of capital.

Indigenous businesses continue to experience negative impacts due to COVID-19 on top of the barriers they already faced before the pandemic began. While the Canadian Council for Aboriginal Business reported last week that the situation is improving, many indigenous businesses continue to have negative impacts.

To fill gaps in the mainstream COVID-19 economic recovery initiatives, our department has provided indigenous businesses with targeted supports throughout the pandemic. To date, Indigenous Services Canada has allocated approximately $890 million in COVID-19 supports to indigenous businesses. This is on top of its regular programming to support economic development and other Government of Canada supports that can be accessed by indigenous businesses through the COVID-19 economic response plan.

One of its COVID-19 business supports is the indigenous community business fund, which provides support to eligible first nations, Inuit and Métis businesses whose revenues have been affected by the pandemic.

In British Columbia, the fund has provided over $2 million of much-needed emergency support to the St. Eugene Golf Resort & Casino, which is owned by five first nations and is located in Cranbrook. This business is a major tourism anchor in the region and employs over 200 people, including many first nations members. Support from the fund helped to cover the fixed operating costs as well as support costs needed to adapt to COVID and to maintain its assets.

The hotel is now preparing to reopen this spring, and although the tourism sector is still in recovery, funding from the indigenous community business fund has helped support this community-owned business and helped the communities retain jobs.

As I'm also the minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario, it's very important to me that the regional relief and recovery fund continue to help indigenous businesses and organizations mitigate the impacts and recover from the COVID-19 pandemic. FedNor has played a critical role in providing meaningful support to indigenous clients in their ongoing planning, community economic development and capacity-building efforts.

Indigenous Services Canada has also made investments to help indigenous communities offset own-source revenue losses due to the pandemic. The own-source revenue and indigenous communities initiative has helped to partially offset declines in own-source revenues so that first nations, Inuit and Métis communities can continue to provide core community programs and important services to their members.

Our department has also been very active in working to reduce barriers faced by indigenous businesses when it comes to participating in federal procurement. In August, 2021 we updated the procurement strategy for indigenous businesses and announced a new government-wide mandatory procurement target to ensure that a minimum of 5% of the value of federal contracts are awarded to businesses owned and led by indigenous individuals.

We will continue to work with indigenous partners to develop a longer-term transformative approach to indigenous procurement.

Businesses established in the indigenous community may also face a lack of access to land and proper infrastructure. Indigenous entrepreneurs may have trouble finding physical space to conduct their business and accessing business networks. In addition, they may have unreliable access to electricity and Internet connections. Lastly, they may face challenges in getting goods to market given the remoteness and poor or unavailable road infrastructure. These are complex issues.

Our government is working closely with indigenous people and organizations across the country to address the root causes of these barriers and to improve overall economic networks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Minister, would you wrap up, please?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We will continue to work together with indigenous communities to address the inequalities that indigenous entrepreneurs and businesses face. When indigenous economies and peoples thrive and flourish, in fact, all of Canada does.

Meegwetch. Marsi. Thank you. Qujannamiik.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Minister Hajdu.

Minister Vandal, you have five minutes.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Minister of Northern Affairs]

Thank you. It's good to be here.

Tansi. Bonjour.

I'm speaking to you from my constituency office in Saint Boniface—Saint Vital in Winnipeg, homeland of the Métis Nation on Treaty 1 territory.

Thank you for inviting me to appear today to discuss indigenous economic development.

I'm joined by Paula Isaak, president of the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency; Serge Beaudoin, assistant deputy minister of Northern Affairs; and Mohan Denetto, executive advisor for Prairies Economic Development Canada.

As Minister of Northern Affairs, Minister responsible for Prairies Economic Development Canada and Minister responsible for the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency, I had the opportunity to listen to indigenous partners tell me about the barriers that they face in terms of economic development.

Access to skills development and educational opportunities is often limited by infrastructure, connectivity, housing, and so on. Our government continues to make progress in eliminating many of these barriers. I'd like to provide a few examples.

Access to high-quality education for young people is critical not only to individual success, but to local economies and Canada as a whole. This is an issue that's personal to me from my days as a Winnipeg city councillor where I led the development of the aboriginal youth strategy, which was the first of its kind in Canada, and as a social worker and youth worker with the Mamaweyatitan Centre in downtown Winnipeg.

We're making new investments in education in the north. We've provided funding to construct a new science building at the Yukon University and to transform Aurora College into a polytech university as a well as investing $13 million for the Dechinta Centre for Research and Learning. I have also announced a task force on post-secondary education, which will provide recommendations on ways to close the gaps in education and skills development that exists between the north and the south.

CanNor has been particularly important across the territories for indigenous businesses. Over the last three years, CanNor has provided over 60% of its funding to indigenous recipients. In Nunavut, CanNor has invested in small-scale fisheries development projects, working in partnership with the hunters and trappers associations. The project supports exploratory inshore fisheries research to develop community-owned commercial fisheries in three hamlets.

In the Northwest Territories, we have invested in the Cheetah Resources Nechalacho rare earth demonstration project, which supports sustainable resource development in collaboration with the Det’on Cho corporation, which is the economic arm of the Yellowknives Dene First Nation.

In Yukon, we're supporting a local indigenous-owned company, Grandma Treesaw's Bannock and catering services, in a one-year project to export dry bannock mix to the United States.

Our government is working with partners to manage and remediate northern contaminated sites that will promote employment, training and business opportunities for indigenous nations and northerners.

Indigenous businesses in the prairies face unique challenges. We are delivering investment programs to foster economic growth and prosperity. The indigenous business development services, IBDS, provides early-stage support for new and existing indigenous entrepreneurs and business organizations.

The Arctic Gateway Group in Manitoba is helping maintain operations of the Hudson Bay Railway located in Churchill, Manitoba. Approximately 70% of their employees are indigenous.

Recognizing that there is much to be done, we know that economic diversification and innovation are key elements to resilience and reconciliation. To achieve this, indigenous partners have to be at the table. This is why we have launched the Arctic and northern policy framework. Together, we're developing long-term opportunities to protect the north's rich natural environment, build healthier communities, respect the rights and interests of indigenous peoples and support a diversified, sustainable and dynamic economy for the north and the Arctic.

Once again, thank you for the opportunity to appear before the committee.

I'll be happy to answer your questions.

Qujannamiik. Merci beaucoup. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Minister Vandal.

We'll now move on to the first round of questions.

Mr. Schmale, you have six minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon, witnesses, and thank you, ministers, for agreeing to appear before the committee today on this very important topic. As we've heard at committee and as you've pointed out in your remarks, we can never truly achieve reconciliation with indigenous people without addressing economic reconciliation.

So let's start there. We've had witnesses in the last little while tell us more about that in our first study, and how there needs to be a focus on the indigenous economy, procurement, business programming and access to market.

With that in mind, Minister Hajdu, when we're talking about business recovery programs and the aboriginal entrepreneurship program, according to your departmental results report document released earlier this month, your departmental goal was to increase indigenous businesses created and/or expanded by a modest 2%. It was missed by minus 6.92%. I do note that, under the explanation, the net number of businesses created may still show a decline due to closures of many indigenous businesses, but it is expected to rise again as some of these temporary measures are lifted.

With that in mind, Minister, can you tell us when your government will finally have a plan in place to end federal mandates and restrictions so that indigenous businesses can recover and thrive?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you very much.

COVID-19 has undoubtedly placed strains on every community and in particular businesses, especially businesses that are in oftentimes remote and hard-to-access communities. I first of all want to thank indigenous leaders from across the country for being so responsive in taking care of their citizens—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

A date, Minister; just a date, Minister. Thanks.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

It's hard for me to respond without giving some context, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Go ahead, Minister.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Thank you.

As part of those extraordinary measures, communities were supported through the COVID relief fund to be able to act quickly and swiftly to protect citizens from COVID-19. They did incredible things all across the country, with different responses.

Of course, that meant that, just like other communities, businesses struggled. Despite the fact that Indigenous Services Canada provided significant resources, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, to indigenous businesses to get them through these tough times, like other COVID recovery measures, many are still struggling. We're going to be there for indigenous businesses as they come out of this very difficult time. As public health measures change and shift, we'll continue to be there. We'll have the backs of indigenous business owners across this country for as long as it takes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Minister. Do you have an approximate date on when federal mandates might be lifted?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I will just say this. We have had, for a very long time, two goals in mind—one, to protect the health of Canadians and indigenous people, and two, to protect the economy. As the member opposite knows, you can't have a strong economy if people are sick with COVID-19.

So it's about balancing those two goals carefully to make sure that the supports are in place as our economy recovers and as people are protected from COVID-19.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay, Minister.

In your departmental report, there were 1,076 newly created or supported businesses. How many newly created businesses are included in that 1,076? How much of the $890 million went to actual new business creation versus supporting businesses and trying to keep them afloat?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I think I'll turn to Deputy Minister Fox to speak about those specifics.

[Christiane Fox, Deputy Minister, Department of Indigenous Services]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and Minister.

I think what I would say is that, yes, indeed those are the right numbers in terms of newly created businesses. Maybe for a bit of context in terms of COVID, 3,658 businesses received some of the funding for COVID supports. Many of those businesses operated in the areas of construction or natural resources. A third of those businesses were majority owned by women.

Those are some of the facts based on the COVID supports that were provided through the various programs that the department put in place.

Thank you.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you.

Another area of concern, Minister, with respect to data, appears in the results in the percentage of first nations communities where non-federal government revenues represent 25% or more of total revenues. Your target of at least 18% is dramatically exceeded by 49%, which is quite the accomplishment, until you read the actual caveat, which states:

Due to gaps regarding available data and still-evolving impacts of COVID-19; a random sampling has been issued to generate an estimate

Given that sampling has been used to generate that estimate and the difference between this figure and the target.... First of all, I don't think the results are very clear.

Factoring out that the targets to be achieved in the future of 35% or 49% were either not met or available, when are we planning to fix this massive gap, which would then reduce a barrier to indigenous economic development?

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Maybe I can offer some general comments and then turn to Deputy Fox for some specifics on that particular research point.

I will just say that this government is historically investing in data and research that's indigenous-driven, -owned and -led. That is an important piece of work. In fact, for far too long, we've been working with gaps in data that are significant and a lack of investment in indigenous data that is indigenous-led through the principles of OCAP. This government has a plan to do that. It had an extremely aggressive investment in budget 2021 to be able to do that.

Maybe I can turn to Deputy Fox to talk a bit about the specifics around this particular research point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

I'm afraid we won't have time for that. We're at six minutes.

The second speaker is Mr. McLeod for six minutes.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the two ministers for joining us. I really appreciated the presentation. It was very informative and interesting, for sure.

I've been involved in indigenous issues for most of my adult life, trying to deal with the situation in the community I live in and the communities across the north when it comes to quality of life. I was attending tribal council meetings when I was 17 years old. Some of the issues that we're talking about now are issues that I was talking about then.

A lot of effort has been made to bring back what was lost. We now have 14 tables in the Northwest Territories that are talking about land claims, land tenure, self-governance and compensation. It's all important stuff and we need to right some of the wrongs that were happening to us. We've also made a lot of progress on resource revenue sharing and on mandatory process participation. It's all important stuff.

However, we needed some changes to be made. I was really happy to see the new self-government fiscal policy come into play. It was done in a collaborative approach with indigenous people and it's a good document.

I wanted to ask the minister if she could tell me how that document—they call it the “green book”—covers economic development and how that's going to benefit the indigenous people.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

I first want to say that the member is right. I think our government has been the most intentional of any government in terms of steps towards reconciliation, with some of the highlights that he mentioned, whether it's land claims, self-compensation or the resource revenue-sharing model that is changing economic development across the country.

I will turn to Deputy Fox to answer the specifics of that question.

[Christiane Fox]

Thank you.

The minister and I were recently in a conversation with one of the chiefs around what self-determination can mean in terms of economic growth and employment. When the community in Whitecap, Saskatchewan, did their land code through a self-determination and self-governance agreement with the federal government, they moved from 70% unemployment to about 7%.

The opportunity is there with self-governance. We can advance on some of these economic development opportunities through land claim agreements and resource revenue sharing, and looking at it from all aspects of economic development. A number of our programs try to promote that, but it takes a whole-of-government approach in order for communities to see economic development.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I have another question, this one for Mr. Vandal, regarding the abandoned mine program and how that creates opportunities for indigenous businesses and people and for skill development.

Minister Vandal, a large part of your ministry is the northern abandoned mine reclamation program, which I think has around $2.2 billion allocated in budget 2019 to clean up these sites.

That includes a number of mines. Giant Mine is one of them, and probably one of the more prominent ones. Last August, you signed some agreements with the Yellowknives Dene. There are others, such as the Silver Bear mine and Norman Wells oil fields that are going to undergo reclamation. There's going to be a lot of reclamation in the Northwest Territories.

Could you perhaps update us on what these types of agreements you've signed with the Yellowknives Dene will result in? How important are these types of projects to indigenous businesses and to northern economic success?