Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Idlout, you have two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I think I've used only a minute and 50 seconds of my time, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

No, it was two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Ms. Idlout, you have two and a half minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much.

I just want to ask the three witnesses something again, and maybe I'll switch the order from the last speaker to the most recent one.

I am struck by the expertise that you all have in each of your areas and the experience you've all had with being indigenous and the barriers you've had to face.

I also really want to react to Grand Chief Daniels about how things are incremental when it comes to first nations, Métis and Inuit economic development. I think it's beyond incremental. I think it's actual suppression. I think government policies purposely make sure that first nations, Métis and Inuit communities are not able to do as well in economic development.

My question to all three of you is, how would you change federal policies for these traditional economies, which I asked you more about, so that they could be better accepted? What kinds of policies would you see in which change is needed to make sure we can have better engagement with first nations, Métis and Inuit businesses?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

I'm afraid you're each going to have about 20 seconds.

Mr. Googoo, do you want to start?

[Christopher Googoo]

I would say greater flexibility in policy is needed, as well as devolution to indigenous-owned institutions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Chief Daniels.

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

Make land available. Stop regulating first nations when it comes to economic growth or economic investment. Give us a guarantee for first nations that want to have foreign investment, and give us our land so that we can develop our land and create opportunities.

Get the bureaucracy out of the way. First nations can do well as long as we stop seeing the interference and the blockading in our economies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Darrell Beaulieu]

As one of the first steps, there have been so many recommendations from the various organizations and institutions over the last 20 to 30 years, I think it's time we started actioning some of those recommendations on the ground in the north.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much.

I would like to thank our three panellists this afternoon, Chief Daniels, Darrell Beaulieu and Chris Googoo, for offering their time to answer our many questions today. It was very much appreciated. This will help us with our study.

Committee members, we will now proceed seamlessly, hopefully, into the second panel. We'll be hearing from Thomas Benjoe, CEO, File Hills Qu’Appelle Developments; Andy Moorhouse, vice-president of economic development, Makivik Corporation; and Carlana Lindeman, education program director, Martin Family Initiative.

We'll start off by listening to Mr. Benjoe.

Mr. Benjoe, you have five minutes to make your presentation.

Thank you.

[Thomas Benjoe, President and Chief Executive Officer, File Hills Qu’Appelle Developments]

Perfect. Thanks so much.

Welcome everyone. Pidamaya.

Thank you for giving me time to speak on behalf of FHQ Developments, which represents the File Hills Tribal Council within the Treaty 4 territory in Saskatchewan. I am a member of Muscowpetung First Nation.

When we look at some of the barriers to economic participation for indigenous communities, we have to go back to having a look at the economic and socio-economic impacts that we need to demand for some of the projects that happen within our territories, and how we manage business and create those business relationships within our territories.

I look at quite a number of projects that are federally or provincially funded, projects that happen within the territory. Let's go back and try to assess what is accountability and transparency on these projects for indigenous participation. We're told that there are indigenous procurement policies in place and that they're going to spend so many dollars with indigenous companies and employ so many indigenous people, but the experience that I've had in my five years as CEO is that a lot of times policy dictates sometimes negative relationships, where organizations are willing to do just enough in order to secure a contract or to meet the premise of indigenous procurement policies. On the labour side of the coin, we see major projects where it's just enough to get an indigenous person a job for a period of time for a project, versus actually building and developing capacity for our own people.

These are things that are often very frustrating for us when we see these major projects in our territories. They continue to move forward and to talk about the success, but that success is only transactional in nature and only at one point in time, rather than being built on a relationship between those businesses, those projects and the first nations in those territories.

Those are some aspects that I know we've seen in a lot of projects. Based on the types of policies that we see within our territory, I know that we've had to change the way we do business as an organization. Our focus is absolutely on economic and socio-economic impacts. That means that we not only need to build a business portfolio that is competitive and can compete in the markets with non-indigenous businesses, we also have the responsibility of economic development and making sure that we're building the indigenous business ecosystem around us. How do we bring our nations, how do we bring our entrepreneurs and our citizens together with us in economic prosperity with these projects?

The third piece to this is how we actually develop indigenous talent alongside the opportunities, so we have a very specific strategy that focuses on indigenous participation. That means that we are taking the time to understand the work and the careers that are to be built. We're not here to just fill numbers for organizations. We are here to actually build careers, so our team of indigenous HR specialists works with organizations to develop more thorough plans on how we're going to see the opportunity, see the careers, so that our young people....

If we work with an organization, and let's say 10 years out they're going to need a certain type of engineer or a certain type of skill set, we want to begin doing the career coaching and mentorship that is necessary with organizations to build relationships between those organizations and our nations, and between our businesses and those individuals, so that when our youth are looking at opportunity for the future, at least they know we're there supporting them and trying to find opportunity that isn't just another training program for the sake of training; we're actually training them for career opportunities.

That's a really important aspect of the way we've been able to navigate strategy.

When we look at the history of our organization, we're considered to be a bit young. We're in our infancy as an organization. We've only been around for a little over 10 years, but we started with very low investment from our nations. We've leveraged relationships and strategy, and we've used what government programs we've been able to access to be able to build and develop the business model we now have as an organization.

We've also taken a very serious step in working with our partners in the businesses we create, so that we are actually building capacity, so that we do have an equity stake and so that these aren't just joint ventures or business relationships that are based on contracts; these are actual businesses we are building.

We're focusing on—

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Mr. Benjoe, I'll have to ask you to wrap up now.

[Thomas Benjoe]

Okay. Just focusing on sustainability, we're making sure we are doing appropriate planning and aligning all the resources that are available to us. I'll leave my entry there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Benjoe.

Mr. Moorhouse, you have five minutes.

[Andy Moorhouse, Vice-President, Economic Development, Makivik Corporation]

Thank you very much for this opportunity.

[Witness spoke in Inuktitut]

[English]

I come to you as a vice-president for Makivik Corporation, representing the Inuit of Nunavik but also speaking on behalf of all Inuit across Inuit Nunavik.

I'm going to mention just a few challenges we have with the allotted time we have in regard to indigenous economic development.

I would say that the first and foremost challenge would be access to capital or capital for infrastructure. Residing in fly-in only communities makes it tremendously hard for many of our communities to even begin to create businesses that would otherwise benefit the communities they are in.

I can give you comparative numbers, which represent the latest comparison for construction compared to the south and the north. Southern costs per square foot were roughly estimated at $150 per square foot. I believe that was before COVID. Costs went through the roof. In the north, the costs are up to $700 per square foot, so you can see the differences and challenges we have when it comes to building infrastructure in the north.

These costs are compounding the already challenging issues that many of the businesses face in our communities and across Inuit Nunavik. Even the simplest business that would attempt to start would require capital, whether it be just a consulting service requiring limited infrastructure, equipment for a restaurant, or even a professional trades service provider who would be required to invest heavily in the infrastructure.

Take into account the operating costs of these infrastructures, which are exorbitant costs because you have to transport the operating expenses, such as fuel for heating. I can tell you that at the moment, we're dealing with a temperature of -55 ℃, which is quite heavy on all the infrastructures we have and increases the cost of operations for many of our communities and many of our businesses.

I mentioned as well that these communities are fly-in only communities. Many of the communities we have are not connected to the main highway network, and there are limited services that come each year, meaning that the shipping season is quite tight, so we have to rely on air transport.

Just in northern Quebec, 14 communities are fly-in only communities. We're not connected to the main electric network, so we do not have infrastructures such as fibre optics. This compounds the challenges that many of the Inuit communities face, not to mention that once we are finally able to get our shipping season open, from July up until the end of October, we only have four months in order to manage all the essential needs for the communities, which will have to last for the rest of the year, up until the next shipping season. In the end, it requires extensive planning and extensive management of infrastructure and of capital, which do not necessarily generate any revenue.

The last point I would like to make has been echoed by many of the panellists, which is basically the priority of contracts. If there are any contracts that are coming up for bids, it is essential for many of our businesses to have access to these contracts by priority, if the bids are happening in their communities or in their regions. I believe I've echoed this sentiment by all first nations across Canada. I have heard these same messages across Canada, as I am also a board member for the National Indigenous Economic Development Board.

Thank you for the time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Moorhouse.

Ms. Lindeman, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Dr. Carlana Lindeman, Education Program Director, Martin Family Initiative]

Thank you very much.

Thank you for inviting me to this event and for the opportunity to speak with you about our programs.

I join you from Shuniah Ontario, which is the traditional territory of the Fort William First Nation, signatory to the Robinson Superior Treaty of 1850.

In these remarks, I want to introduce you to three programs that we have developed that focus on business and entrepreneurship for indigenous people. As has been mentioned so far this afternoon, there have been a number of excellent examples of the types of indigenous-focused businesses that are under way across the country.

One example is Pro Metal Industries in Regina, which is owned by the Pasqua First Nation. It's the only fully first nations owned military supplier in our country.

Clearwater has also been mentioned. It is now 50% owned by a coalition of first nations, particularly the Mi'kmaq people in Atlantic Canada.

The Clarke Lake Geothermal Project by the Fort Nelson First Nation is one of Canada's first geothermal electricity facilities.

Another example are the massive wind farms in northeastern Ontario, New Brunswick and Quebec.

Last would be the huge transmission project here in northwestern Ontario that connects 17 first nations communities.

These examples clearly illustrate the economic impact now and the potential economic impact of indigenous people in our country. We know how much of a benefit that is, not only to indigenous people but to Canadians as a whole.

The Martin Family Initiative believes that Canadians must ensure that indigenous children, youth and adults receive the education they require since they are such a vital part of Canada's present and future.

We believe that education is a key way of eliminating barriers to economic development. We cannot build a strong country if we turn our backs on the youngest, fastest-growing segment of our population. This requires all of us to work together to ensure that indigenous people have the knowledge and skills they need to participate in these exemplary ventures, others, and those of the future.

To this end, MFI—our acronym for our organization—has developed a suite of programs to introduce business education to first nations elementary school students, indigenous high school students and indigenous adults across Canada.

I'm going to spend a little bit of time describing the three programs for you.

The first was launched in 2006 at Dennis Franklin Cromarty High School in Thunder Bay. It's the aboriginal youth entrepreneurship program, which is a program of two credits of 110 hours each in the final two years of high school. It introduces indigenous students to a wide range of business opportunities that are available within the Canadian economy.

The program teaches these students how they can follow in the path of inspiring indigenous role models and find success within their communities and the Canadian economy at large. The courses help these students to succeed in high school, in the workplace, in post-secondary studies and in life. They are designed to improve proficiency in business math, English, financial literacy, accounting, business marketing, and information and communications technology, all while supporting the acquisition of leadership skills and communication skills. Since its launch, almost 6,300 high school students across the country have enrolled in the program, with about a 75% completion rate. In some years it's been as high as 80%.

The second program was created at the request of leaders in Manitoba. They were very familiar with the high school program but said they needed something for indigenous adult learners. We created a 60-hour program called the “indigenous entrepreneurship course”, which has the key elements of the high school program. It, too, has been very successful. We do a lot of evaluation and receive feedback from the instructors and students in all of our programs, and we use that to continually improve it.

Our third program is under way right now and is being piloted in first nations schools in Alberta and Saskatchewan. With the support of NGen, the Canadian manufacturing super cluster, we've developed two courses for grades 6, 7 and 8 students who attend first nations elementary schools. The first is called “introduction to financial literacy” and the second is “introduction to entrepreneurship”. Once the pilot is finished and we've changed the courses based on the feedback from schools, teachers, parents, elders and knowledge-keepers, our goal is to expand across the country.

To support all three of these programs, we've developed a series of textbooks and teacher resource guides. We incorporate indigenous examples; case studies; teaching tools, such as the medicine wheel and indigenous role models; and we use the seven sacred teachings as the ethical basis of business. We have dedicated coordinators who provide training and ongoing support for the schools.

We've also developed a number of extra resources. For example, we've developed food and tourism sector materials for students who are interested in entrepreneurship activities in either food or tourism. We're currently creating an app, which we think is the first high school business app anywhere in the country, and it will be available free to students. We also have case studies of indigenous entrepreneurs and related materials. In collaboration with NGen, we're developing a series of materials to support the manufacturing sector in Canada with a focus on developing a product for students. We also have a Google Chat site—which has really blossomed over the last two years—on which we post print and video resources that classroom teachers and students can use to support the program.

I'd be very pleased to discuss any of these programs with you and to talk about our experiences so far.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Lindeman.

We'll proceed with the first round of questions, starting with Mr. Schmale from the Conservative Party. You have six minutes, sir.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for this great conversation and a very interesting topic.

Mr. Moorhouse, I will start with you. You commented on some of the challenges you have in the north attracting business. Can you tell us about some of the other challenges you're having in regard to energy and the price of it and what barriers that creates with respect to attracting businesses, keeping costs in line and that sort of thing?

[Andy Moorhouse]

Thank you.

With regard to energy, all we have are diesel-operated generators, and that's within all 14 communities. As mentioned, we're not connected to the electrical grid, and additional extensive investment would have to be done in order to reach all 14 communities, because you're talking about one-third of the province, at the northernmost part of the province. We would have to do an extensive study of what opportunities there are for generating electricity within the north, but also take into account the challenges. As I said, today we're dealing with -55 ℃ with the wind chill. I can't imagine what it would do to certain infrastructure such as windmills, so you have to take that into consideration. What other options are there? There isn't much sunlight during the day this time of the year. Quite an extensive study would have to be done in order to identify what opportunities there are for generating electricity in order to have affordable operating costs for businesses in the north.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Yes, -55 ℃, I can't even imagine. I'm a shorts-and-sandals kind of guy, so I can't imagine what you're dealing with in that cold.

In terms of the energy source, which I think is something we've been hearing over and over again, in a previous Parliament, we actually did a study in a different committee on this sort thing and on supplying energy to communities that are rural and remote, especially in Canada's north. Is there any additional talk about SMRs or potentially using them in the future, based on the studies and practicality of small modular reactors?

[Andy Moorhouse]

There's none that I have heard. I know that there have been some studies done on wind power, solar power and hydroelectric power in some of the communities, but at the same time, traditional territory, traditional activities, harvesting rights and those kinds of activities need to be properly balanced with the communities' needs. In regard to your specific point, I've not heard of any discussions or studies about SMRs, as you were saying.