Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

But that's where they came from.

Thank you.

Mr. Daniels, in the sense of a regional.... One thing I would ask you, though, is about the critical aspect of education. You've slightly referred to it. In your view, how critical is to connect education to economic development?

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

Education needs to be reflective of the local economy and the opportunities that are available within it, which are not always present, and clearly connected to the training that is being done in the region. Emerging industries are very important, but first nations definitely have a hard time accessing or being a genuine partner with industry, because of the lack of capital that's available and the experience within those areas.

We suggest that something like a peer equity fund be established for use by first nations and regional development corporations that can access equity, to help them get a start in significant business opportunity areas—whatever areas they may be—that would not have as many strings attached as we've seen previously. This would level the playing field, because first nations, for decades, have been left out of many industries and haven't been able to develop or accumulate a significant amount of capital that they can diversify to a large extent.

I think this is what's been creating the sustained poverty and the continued increasing gap within the region. Transfer payments within social programs can only go so far. Many of our communities are stuck managing poverty, and we need to shift that focus toward creating opportunity and partnerships, and building those relationships with the private sector. That needs the support of Canada.

Canada needs to be able to create a willingness and openness to have first nations not only be involved in that area, but to be real contributors. The investment that happened here in Manitoba with the protein plant could have been done on a first nations reserve. Many of the—

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

You're touching on directly where I would go. When you talk about land base, that's critical in the sense of those partnership opportunities. You've got the one example that's popped out. Do you have others that you would like to suggest?

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

There are numerous examples. We have a film industry that's being developed here in southern Manitoba. First nations are not engaged at the table. We've just recently started speaking with some of the local leadership about this, but that's through our own work here at SCEDC. We're continuing to have those conversations.

Again, there is a lack of equity and lack of capital within many of our communities, which are utilizing their land claims in many instances—land claims that they should have had for decades and decades—in order to try to get themselves involved in these industries with not a whole lot of expertise, because they don't have the decades and decades of experience within business management.

A lot of us are behind the gun on this. We rely, as some have said, on business analysts and business consultants, which does not always end up being the best scenario for us or the best way forward. Some of us are successful, some are not, but the vast majority don't see their quality of life improving, and that's the problem.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Mr. McLeod, you have six minutes.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to welcome our presenters, Chief Daniels, Chris Googoo and, from the Northwest Territories, Darrell Beaulieu.

It's a real pleasure to hear the presentations, with lots of good information.

My question is for Darrell Beaulieu. I know personally that Denendeh developments has interests in a wide variety of sectors. Are there any particular sectors of the economy that, as an indigenous organization, you have found more difficult to get involved in? If so, what steps can the Government of Canada take to help organizations like yours diversify into some of these new fields?

[Darrell Beaulieu]

Thank you very much, Michael.

As you mentioned, we've been involved in utilities and the oil and gas sector for many years. As the mining industry is driving the economy in the Northwest Territories, especially in the diamond areas, for a number of years the indigenous groups have really focused on providing services to the mines and building up that capacity. In the 1990s, there were a handful of indigenous businesses providing those supplies and services. Now there are close to 100, but then you have to realize that mines have finite life cycle and that's coming to an end. We have to diversify.

One of the biggest challenges is the infrastructure development for hydro, transmission lines, transportation corridors, and so on. That's going to take a lot of capital. It's going to take technical capacity and a lot of planning, and a lot of quality project preparation processes that cost a hell of a lot of money: feasibility studies, market assessments, competitive analysis, engineering, legal analysis, environmental impact assessment, structured financing plans, financial transaction plans, implementation plans, and so on.

Just the fact of looking at a project takes a lot of capacity—financial, legal, environmental, and so on—working with governments, the regulatory processes, the banks, and private equity when required. That's where I think there's a real shortfall in funding indigenous businesses in the north, or not only in the north but right across the country.

That's going to take a lot of work, because at the end of the day, as Jerry mentioned, it's going to be the jobs, direct benefits of jobs into the people's pockets in our communities and our respective regions that's going to make a difference.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you for that.

As you know, Darrell, I've been very interested in the work you've been doing with the NWT indigenous leaders economic coalition and now you have an opportunity to talk to the Government of Canada and talk to this committee.

How can the Government of Canada better support your vision for a better future for indigenous economic development in the Northwest Territories?

[Darrell Beaulieu]

We all have roles to play in developing the economy of the north. That includes a partnership. However, those partnerships have to have real activity.

We're dealing with a multitude of participants, whether it's government and indigenous governments or indigenous business. That's a major discussion that we've been having at the coalition in trying to move this forward and looking at identifying some of those projects, doing evaluations and then getting into the nitty-gritty of discussions on financing.

The adequate capital to do all of that is a requirement. We don't need to set up new institutions. You already have existing institutions that have been doing this for 20 or 30 years. Those existing institutions also have chief strategy officers; we have chief financial officers; we have financial teams.

The structure is there. It's just a matter of the political will to make it happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Mr. McLeod, you have 30 seconds.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

I just want to ask about fairness.

Darrell, do you feel that the indigenous businesses in the north are treated the same as they are on reserve and in the south?

[Darrell Beaulieu]

I can answer that very clearly: No.

For the indigenous peoples in the north, because there are no reserves and because of the programs being transferred to third parties like the GNWT and CanNor, the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development has really stepped back. None of the funding comes north anymore. It's just those program dollars that I spoke to earlier. That really puts indigenous peoples on their heels here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. McLeod.

Mrs. Gill, you have six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I would like to thank all of the witnesses for their testimony, which is giving us possible solutions today. I found everything that they said interesting.

I would like us to take a step back from some issues that we have been discussing since the beginning, even though they may be very important, like access to capital.

Mr. Daniels said that there are other types of problems that first nations are facing, particularly with respect to education, housing, health and basic infrastructure, specifically issues related to drinking water.

I would like each of the witnesses to explain to us how all of those issues represent a barrier to entrepreneurship. There is the issue of capital, but first there needs to be entrepreneurs, people who want to do business.

How does this harm entrepreneurship, and what would be possible solutions?

We could certainly talk about equity, in the short term, to support indigenous entrepreneurship.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

The question is for all three of you. Let's just say Mr. Beaulieu, if you want to start it off.

[Darrell Beaulieu]

Unfortunately, I did not get the interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

All right.

Chief Daniels, did you get the interpretation?

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

I just caught the last of it because I was looking for it, but I didn't catch the whole thing.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Chair, would you allow me to repeat my question once everyone has access to the interpretation? I may have caught people off guard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

I don't know whether Mr. Beaulieu will have access to it. It was maybe not set up.

Yes, please repeat your question.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I won't repeat my thanks, so that things move along a bit faster.

I understood everything that was said about access to capital, which is an overriding issue, of course. However, when we talk about access to entrepreneurship, there are other barriers that affect people more closely, like schools, housing, health and basic infrastructure.

I would like all of the witnesses to address this issue and give us possible solutions to tackle these problems for current and future entrepreneurs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Chief Daniels, if you got that, go ahead with an answer. We'll go to the other two after.

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

Absolutely.

Many would be aware that we face a systemic discrimination challenge in this country at the jobs level and the hiring level. We hear about it quite a bit from our members, who are going to different sites in northern Manitoba and different regions looking for work.

To look on the solution side, how do we change that? As I've said, we need the best teachers. We need a competitive education system. The best in the world is always what we're shooting for in looking for the best practices. We absolutely need to give our entrepreneurs the support that they need in accessing and entering different industries, and we see it happening. However, we need to keep in mind that decades of barriers, and even blockades, for first nations entering industry have been hugely significant.

It's incremental. How incrementally is the government willing to accept the changes? Is the incremental expansion of economic development, as opposed to the poverty that we're experiencing, going to change anything significantly in improving wellness and quality of life?

That's the challenge for all leaders and those who are talking about economic development and trying to create opportunities. Are we doing enough? Are we removing enough red tape? Are we creating enough access to capital? Are we including the most marginalized demographic in many of the investments that are coming from foreign companies and countries? We're not involved at those tables. We're involved at the lower ends of the subcontracts and the benefits, and not part of the main discussions of investment.

There are millions of acres owed to first nations in southern Manitoba alone. These acres of land represent wealth and investment that we are not a part of. Equity needs to be made available so that we can be meaningful partners, build on that experience from there and hopefully lead to more diversified wealth.

There are two tiers to this, because we have to work with municipalities, provinces and the federal government, which have set up a governmental relationship that excluded first nations and continues to do that. Those are real struggles that we have.

If we're going to change the quality of life, it's going to have to address all of those things. I think a pure equity solution is going to help in trying to streamline and give first nations people more benefits and opportunities to engage in the emerging industries.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

I held off on interrupting you, Mr. Daniels, because I have found someone who speaks as much and as passionately about this topic as I do.

I'd like to ask you another question. Earlier, you raised the issue of bureaucratic interference, which is a whole other matter.

I'd like you to tell me a bit more about this, if possible.