Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay. I appreciate that. I do understand that energy is a huge concern, and the cost of it.

If I can, maybe I can quickly go to Mr. Benjoe because I think I'm running out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

You have two minutes and 28 seconds.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Two minutes? Okay, I thought I was down to a minute. Perfect.

Mr. Benjoe, if I could, along the lines of building capacity, specifically in regard to Indigenous Services Canada, I think some of the comments we've been hearing in previous testimony are that this department is really in the business of program funding more than anything, and not really looking towards the future or thinking in terms of what can be done if we allow more collaboration.

Maybe you can just tell us a bit about some things the department could do better in order to help indigenous communities reach their goals.

[Thomas Benjoe]

I think we really need to look outside of the box in terms of new solutions and new ways of looking at developing capacity. We had discussions last week with organizations that are developing micro credentials. The demand for micro credentials in the future is going to help break down academic barriers that have been created, which keep a lot of our people in the dark for participation. I think there is a major disruption that is coming. Then again, look at what access to infrastructure looks like in our communities, and if we don't have good Internet, if we don't have fibre, it makes it a little difficult to be able to access that level of training and education.

I'll use an example. We have a very successful software testing company in Saskatchewan called PLATO Sask Testing. We actually have one of our testers who lives on the Flying Dust First Nation, who is doing work for a company out of Calgary for a client who is in Portugal.

Where infrastructure does exist, we are demonstrating the impact that investment makes for us to be successful and to build that capacity. Now we know that we can begin looking at youth from some of these communities, making that investment in a different type of training and utilizing micro credentials or being able to develop our own training programs to uplift our youth.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Schmale.

Ms. Atwin, you have six minutes.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses today for joining us.

I want to start with Mr. Benjoe, if I can.

You mentioned specifically an angle of socio-economics as well. I am just wondering if there are any additional barriers to economic development for specific groups of indigenous people such as women, two-spirited people and persons with disabilities. If it exists, what is your organization doing to work to combat these ongoing barriers?

[Thomas Benjoe]

My philosophy on making sure that every aspect of our first nations community is supported is that instead of trying to take things on our own as a development corporation, we've chosen to partner. We've partnered with Women Entrepreneurs of Saskatchewan. We've partnered with Economic Development Regina. We've created programming together to support our entrepreneurs and to specifically look at the barriers that our women entrepreneurs may face through the Matchstick program that was created.

I know that capital has come up quite a few times here. We've been trying to knock on federal doors to ask, “Can we get a separate fund established for access to capital for our indigenous women entrepreneurs in Saskatchewan?” We'd love to be able to have access to that.

The reason we need it to be different is because some of the basic criteria of being able to access that capital are a little different. If we're coming from families or entrepreneurs who don't have assets to be able to use as collateral, the chances of them accessing the current capital are such that it's not going to work. There are things like that.

We've been working with our non-indigenous partners and collaborating. We just created a new mentorship program that's going to be able to access significant capacity from the business community so that our entrepreneurs can pick up the phone and give them a call.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

That's excellent. Thank you so much.

I'm going to move to Ms. Lindeman.

Given the devastating legacy of residential schools and the need for “by indigenous, for indigenous”, how does the Martin Institute approach the issue of decolonizing education?

[Dr. Carlana Lindeman]

Our programs are focused on business.

In terms of decolonizing, we do compulsory training for the teachers and the principal with whom we work, and we provide ongoing support. In that training, we ask the teachers to really reach out to the community, because this is a community program. The schools cannot offer it alone for either the adult or the youth.

Who are the elders, the knowledge-keepers, the indigenous business owners, and the mentors who will come into the classroom to talk about their experiences such as the panellists today who have talked about their experiences and given their best advice? We do a lot of explaining to the schools that this is not a traditional bricks-and-mortar—or virtual over the last two years—program, but it's definitely a community-based program with a focus on indigenous students. Therefore the program is for indigenous students with support from the wider indigenous community.

I hope that helps to answer your question.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

That's great. Thank you so much.

[Dr. Carlana Lindeman]

Thank you.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Really quickly with my remaining time, I would like to go to Mr. Moorhouse now.

Just to kind of flip this conversation on its head a bit and move to a less deficit-based model, what are the enablers of economic development in the north with the organization that you work for? Can you talk about some of the successful things that have been done that can help enable further growth?

[Andy Moorhouse]

Partnership is one main point for sure. We have a successful shrimp fishing partnership in the Maritimes that creates employment both for a lot of people from Newfoundland and for some people from our region who would have to travel.

Our corporation has developed internal businesses such as our own regional airline. We do have Inuit pilots and Inuit flight attendants. Many of our ground operations are, at some points, 100% Inuit managed in each community, so we do have a lot of success stories.

Partnerships are one key point that we need to promote, and this is what we're working towards especially across the north with the six different regions of Inuit across the Canadian Arctic. We do have a partnership and we're working towards developing additional partnerships that would create more jobs for our respective regions.

Partnership is one of the key points that we've promoted over the last few years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Very quickly, Mr. Benjoe, do you have anything to add to that as far as some of the enablers go?

[Thomas Benjoe]

I think one of the enablers is definitely going back to partnerships and making sure that we do have the right partners in place and that there is a strong alignment of values, as well as making sure that they see themselves in the vision of our indigenous organizations.

It's beyond reconciliation. This is being competitive for the future and strengthening our economy together.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Atwin.

Mr. Garon, you have six minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I would like to thank the three witnesses. Their comments were very interesting.

I would like to address my first question to Mr. Moorhouse.

Mr. Moorhouse, you told us about all the challenges related to remoteness, the fact that you are located in the far north, infrastructure and transportation problems, and so on.

Do you think that government assistance and support programs do a good job of taking your specific realities into account? Please provide a detailed response.

[Andy Moorhouse]

It's hard to make a one-for-all type of program, especially with the number of first nations and indigenous groups across Canada. Until you get to a point where you're able to earmark each program geared towards a province or a specific group of people, they will always have challenges. This is a fact that we've had to deal with over the years. We try to access a certain amount of funds in order to generate business support within the communities, but there are certain rules that do not reflect our concerns or our issues, one being access to capital.

With most programs, you mostly get limitations on the amount of funding that you can get access to. As I mentioned, our costs in developing infrastructure in the north can go up to five times higher as compared to the south. All of these challenges and programs need to be geared towards specific regions, or specific groups of people in order to maintain the support and impact that are required to ensure the best benefit goes to each of the respective groups or regions.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I understand.

You talk about high, even prohibitive, infrastructure costs. There is also all the infrastructure that helps foster independence and long‑term economic growth. There is education, schools and so on.

Last week, during a committee meeting, witnesses suggested the creation of a new capital fund, which could be managed more by communities. It would give more autonomy to first nations to not only select projects, but also choose the ones that they think would be the most beneficial to the community.

Have you thought about avenues like this? Do you have any similar proposals?

[Andy Moorhouse]

I just want to point out that in order for a business to gain infrastructure or a capital asset for their business, they have to be able to understand in regard to their needs and projections for their business. Also a big issue is operating such an asset if they can afford it.

As I mentioned, energy costs and heating costs in our climate are really exorbitant. It's really challenging for many of our businesses that try to strive but are unable to do so due to many of the challenges that we face. Specific programs geared towards each region, geared towards a specific group of people would be the best option in order to ensure success with the economic opportunities.

It's the same for our own businesses that we have in the north. As I mentioned, we own a regional airline. Within this regional airline we do provide our beneficiaries with the support such as discounts on cargo rates, discounts on trips in order to meet southern partners or whatnot, and in order to meet suppliers. There are certain benefits that our own people provide to their own constituents in order to make sure that they have the support, which may not necessarily be available anywhere else.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I would like to ask you one last question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

You have 20 seconds.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

That's not enough. I will pick up where I left off during the next round.

Thank you, Mr. Moorhouse. That was very informative.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Garon.

Ms. Idlout, you have six minutes.