Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

I could talk all day about this. I could talk about how the provinces like to take away our tobacco tax and try to strip us...and impose their jurisdiction in first nations. You don't see that in Ontario.

When the cannabis industry was presented, it would have been a leg-up for first nations to be involved. Instead, we were talked to after a strategy was already rolled out. It's an industry that could have given first nations an opportunity to create wealth and to benefit so that we could diversify.

First nations are organized in such a way that...in some of our collective organizations, such as SCEDC, for example, or even community-owned corporations, the revenue is usually directed towards education. It's directed to housing shortages. It's directed to recreation. It's directed to creating more opportunity in our communities. It's not directed to simply creating wealth for wealth's benefit or the wealth of individuals. It's a collective effort to create collective wealth and collective well-being.

That's the difference in much of the first nations' approach to economic development. Hopefully, we'll continue to see more partners stepping up and voicing a very comprehensive understanding of why it's important for us to focus on these areas and to have decision-makers make more opportunity for us to address that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill.

Ms. Idlout, you have six minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut]

[English]

I want to first thank all the witnesses who started off speaking their first nations or Métis languages. I think that is such an important way to introduce yourselves. I always try to speak Inuktitut whenever I can because I think it's important for all levels of government to know that we're still here and we still speak our languages. I really appreciated that.

The second thing I appreciate from all of you and all of the witnesses in this study is that we keep hearing about the history of poverty and the history of suppression. I think it's important that we continue to hear these. They are really important messages that we need to continue to hear as parliamentarians. The more we hear of these realities, the more we have to realize how much change we need to fight for. I really appreciated all of you sharing your expertise in those areas.

My first question will be for all of the witnesses. Perhaps the responses could be in the order of the speakers list.

Before colonialism, first nations, Métis and Inuit had expertise, skills and their own form of economy. In what way does your corporation or agency promote and use the traditional systems to support first nations, Métis and Inuit expertise in your communities?

[Darrell Beaulieu]

I come from a family who are interactive with the Métis, the Dene and the Inuit because our traditional territory went from Yellowknife all the way to the Arctic coast. Sir John Franklin was actually guided by our famous Chief Akaitcho up and down the coast, to Fort Chipewyan in Alberta.

The indigenous organizations in the north have been working together. We've had partnerships of Inuit and Inuvialuit. We actually have one partnership, The Northern Aboriginal Services Company, which is the Yukon Indian Development Corporation, Nunasi, the Inuvialuit Development Corporation and Denendeh Investments, working together for the last 30 years. We maintain all the telecommunications infrastructure in the north.

The residential school had some bad parts to it, but it also had some good parts to it. Those of us who survived have engaged to be very good friends, not only in family, but also in business relationships. A lot of the principles we learned have been taken from the teachings of our elders, like how we have to treat each other as human beings and work to benefit our friends, our relatives and our families.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Chief Daniels, do you want to comment?

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

First, I have to disagree with an attempt to frame the residential schools as anything but trying to kill the Indian in the child. I will not ever accept the residential schools for anything outside of that.

I'll stop there to say that what we are doing is giving our young people who are going into education an opportunity. We send our people to school, and in many instances, they're stuck in the cities, and there is not a lot of opportunity in the community. It's simple transfer payments. It's simple government programs that are underfunded, so you're managing poverty, and many of the people are coming to communities. We have addictions. There's no investment happening there, so they're not given the opportunity to work for their people or work for their communities.

That's what our values are are all about. They're about coming back and being able to contribute to your community and to the nation at large. We are a collective of Anishinabe people. We have 30 communities that are Anishinabe. We have four communities that are Dakota, so we really focus on the core teachings and core values around that. Much of what we do is collective. We are a collective economic development corporation owned by all of the communities.

In addition to growing the corporation, it's also about building opportunities for recreation. It's all about investing back into our communities, supporting community well-being and looking to how we partner with the communities in order to create more opportunity and build relationships within the private sector to build more opportunity. That is what it's about for us. It's a comprehensive approach because we're trying to look at all opportunities.

It's also about fairness. We've always been fair. The treaty process was fair. The survival of many of the settlers who came here in the early days was dependent on first nations. We were the social contributors. We contributed to the survival of settlers in our territories, so that value system continues today. It's all about fairness, and we've been a part of that.

Equity is about fairness. You can't say that a first nations child born in a first nations community has the same equity as someone born in middle-class Winnipeg. It's just not the same. You're not experiencing the same decades and decades of poverty and all of the other stuff that goes with it. That's what we've been doing in order to bring continuity in terms of our cultural values to economic development.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Chief.

We have used up the time, but I was wondering if you wanted to comment as well, Mr. Googoo.

[Christopher Googoo]

As I mentioned, we have three separate institutions within Ulnooweg, and each has a different approach to this. As an organization with over 65 staff, we have a very youthful population internally, with probably 55% to 60% under 35. As part of this, our onboarding process involves something as simple as lunch with an elder or traditional knowledge holder. All of our staff sit down at lunch with our remote communities as well to gain this knowledge from traditional people and elders and talk about things like history, residential school experiences and Indian day school experiences, and to bring them back to the values and where they come from.

Under our education centre, we have been very critical in how we approach science and use the teachings of Albert Marshall and his term “Etuaptmumk”—two-eyed seeing. How do we bring science and indigenous knowledge together to create an environment of reconciliation, for example?

Our foundation has built-in links with university and college students. We're integrating culture into their learning journey so that they stay rooted within the communities. As one of the most exciting things that we've done most recently, in December we purchased 200 acres of ancient Wabanaki forest and are creating an education and healing centre, which again results in bringing those traditional teachings, not only through science but also through business and economic development.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Googoo.

That completes the first round. We will move to the second round.

This committee is coming to you from the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe—an oversight on my part.

Mr. Vidal, you can kick us off. You have five minutes.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You surprised me. I thought you said we maybe weren't going to go on to the second round. I will gladly do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

We will start the second round. I'm going to try to get the first four in.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

That's fair game. I'll take that opportunity. Thank you.

I want to thank all the witnesses today. There's been excellent testimony today, and I appreciate you taking time to be here and contribute to our discussion on the barriers to indigenous business.

Each of you in your comments made reference to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act organizations. You've talked about access to capital, and you've talked about a number of things that may play a role in that.

If I could, I'll start with Grand Chief Daniels. In the reference to the fiscal management act, you guys represent multiple first nations in your organizations. My understanding is that one of the limitations to accessing equity under the First Nations Fiscal Management Act organizations is that it has to be done at the individual first nation level. It can't be done by a tribal council or a by a large organization representing multiple first nations.

I'll start with Mr. Daniels, and then each of you can maybe make just make a quick comment on whether that's been your experience and whether that is a limiting factor for you.

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

I think that we always want to make these things much easier for first nations to have meaningful involvement, and absolutely we haven't seen that. We haven't been given that opportunity, so we want to be given that opportunity.

SCO represents first nations that are isolated and don't have a whole lot of opportunity. They're not developing urban reserves in Winnipeg. They're all Anishinabe, but we have three, four or five communities that are probably decades away from really seeing any sort of significant economic development in any of the really important market areas of southern Manitoba.

Our approach is really to try to support those communities and try to build partnerships and support the work that they should be given the opportunity to achieve. That's what SCO has been working on in terms of economic development because we're thinking of all 34. My community, for example, of Long Plain First Nation is doing great here in Winnipeg, but that does nothing for Pauingassi, Poplar River or Little Grand Rapids, who, I will also say, have the most child apprehensions in all of Canada. It has to do with a lack of opportunity, economic development and support in that region.

We think of those communities at SCO. We think of the communities that are behind. In terms of equity, there's just no comparison. They don't have the same opportunity, so we have to try to support those regions that are not in a place where they can capitalize on it.

When I think of the management act, I'm not sure how that will benefit communities like that, but SCO can take the approach and the lead for those communities and hopefully strengthen all of us by tying us together as one. That's the approach we would like to take.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I don't want to cut you off, but I'm so limited on time here.

Mr. Beaulieu, would you want to comment on your experience with the equity access from the First Nations Fiscal Management Act folks?

[Darrell Beaulieu]

Thank you very much.

The first nations financial act is not equal across Canada. In the north, we can't access it unless you are first nations and on reserve, or under the Indian Act. Now you have land claims and self-government agreements. If you have a self-government agreement, you can't access that equity or that funding, and neither can organizations such as Denendeh Development Corporation, Denendeh Investments and so on. I think financing needs to be treated equally so that people can access and leverage that, as mentioned earlier.

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Your comments about access to capital and leveraging equity investments as being key to many of the solutions, I think, are part of where I'm coming at this from.

Mr. Googoo, did you want to comment on that as well? I'm going to give you the opportunity quickly before I run out of time here.

[Christopher Googoo]

Thank you.

As I've mentioned, our work with FNFA and expanding the definition of own-source revenues has made us privy to a lot of information. We have worked with the 13 bands, for example, in Nova Scotia here, in accessing FNFA financing through other deals like Arctic surf clam and within the cannabis industry.

We weren't directly involved with Clearwater, for example, but we were definitely involved leading up to Clearwater and building the capacity of first nations communities. As I mentioned, we were also involved through our work with the community financial review process and supporting the capacity development of communities to then get scheduled into FMB.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Vidal.

Mr. Battiste, you have five minutes.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

[Member spoke in indigenous language]

I'm very happy to see some friends on the panel. Chris Googoo and Grand Chief Daniels, it's very good to see you. I have questions that are related to both of you and what you said around access to capital. I've seen some amazing things during my time as a member of Parliament, especially, Chris, as you mentioned, the Clearwater deal, which was a $1-billion acquisition largely led by Mi'kmaq communities. I'm wondering if both of you could just speak to me for a minute about why it's important to have access to capital.

Mr. Googoo and Grand Chief Daniels.

[Christopher Googoo]

I think our 35-year history has proven that access to capital is one of the levers to provide our participation in the economy, especially when we're talking about revenue sources to potentially run our own governments. Our reliance right now on own-source revenues to fill those gaps that exist within our programming without OSR is detrimental for us. There have been discussions in earlier talks about transfer of payments and money ties in those transfer payments, for example, like infrastructure financing. I think those are great ideas.

In terms of the larger access to capital needs of communities, there is a gap that still exists along the curb of access to capital leading to mainstream institutions and the private market. That gap still exists, and it is something that we continue to look to fill. It is not an easy thing to fill.

I have an example where we went to the mainstream financial institutions to get capital to address that gap with a 1:1 ratio cover from the philanthropic sector, and still the mainstream institutions did not support capitalizing an AFI because of a systemic barrier of discrimination, or whatever you want to call it. Those things exist, and as I think you know very well, an increase in economic development through increased participation with access to capital leads to improvements in health, education and social determinants.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you.

Grand Chief.

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

Anyone who is involved in the private sector knows that it's always very competitive. You have to have the relationships in order to know where to purchase and where the best labour is for whatever industry you're working in. Capital is an important part of that in order for you to take a position, whether it is as a partner or as an owner. There are lots of opportunities that could potentially have been available here for first nations as a collective. The cannabis industry was one big part of that.

There's an exclusion of first nations from many of the industries here in Manitoba, and we haven't been able to capitalize to the extent where you're starting to see quality of life change, or you're starting to see job growth outpace population growth. Poverty growth continues to be the trend here in Manitoba, and it's leading to an 11-year gap in life expectancy.

It's important that there be an availability of capital for us in order to make purchases in different major infrastructure developments like the transmission line that went through. There could have been an opportunity there for us to own. There are many expansions happening in different suburbs throughout Manitoba, throughout Winnipeg. We don't own that land.

Meanwhile, we're owed millions of acres, but it's business as usual while we're still left negotiating 20 years after the agreement was signed. It's twenty-five years later, and we're still sitting here without capital, without the land and still being told to wait. Hopefully, one day we may get those lands back, but in the meantime, industry is continuing to move forward, and capital is restrictive; so is the bureaucratic red tape. When it came to cannabis, we were excluded. When we try to create our own industries, the province comes down on us and tries to regulate and closes down our shops.

That's the challenge for us. It's an economic blockade, and we need to continue to address it. These are the reasons there's poverty for first nations. There's not a lot of support for foreign investment for first nations communities, or to give the guarantees for foreign investment into first nations. That could be located near railway lands. That could be located in market areas that are favourable for investment. Those are the challenges that are important for us to understand and hopefully to address.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Battiste.

Mrs. Gill, you have two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Grand Chief Daniels also raised the issue of the geographic distance of markets. I would imagine that the costs are higher. There is also the matter of labour.

I would like him to talk a bit more about geographic remoteness. If time permits, the other witnesses could then answer the question.

[Grand Chief Jerry Daniels]

One of the significant solutions to what you're talking about is connectivity in our communities and the online economic development opportunities for training, universities, certification, and all of those things. It's obviously not the directly applied arts, because to be able to get the job-site training is much more difficult, but there are opportunities in that sense.

It's still limited, so I think it's important for us, especially for communities that are isolated, that they be given opportunities within the urban areas.

I think they have taken a very progressive approach, because there is a collective educational system here for the southeast communities in Winnipeg. It's been here for a long time. It's been successful. Is it changing the socio-economic status? It's certainly happening—probably a bit—but I don't think it's outgrowing the pace at which we're experiencing socio-economic problems.

I think it's challenging, but there are solutions in terms of connectivity. That's a huge part of it. It's also about building that relationship with communities to create opportunities.

There isn't an arm that's aggressive enough to go after many of the private sector partners that should also be held accountable for including first nations and for giving them jobs, rather than simply reporting in a way that doesn't truly represent first nations citizens, so I think much of that is happening as well.