Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2022

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᖁᔭᓐᓇᒥᒃ, ᓯᕗᓪᓕᕐᒧᑦ, ᓯᕗᓪᓕᕐᒥᓐ ᐃᓛ ᐋᓐᑎᒧᑦ ᐊᐱᕆᓂᐊᕋᒪ, ᐅᖃᓪᓚᓚᐅᕐᓗᖓ ᐊᒃᓱᐊᓗᒃ ᖁᔭᓕᒋᑦ ᐃᓄᒃᑎᑑᖅᖃᐅᒐᕕᑦ. ᓱᓇᐅᕝᕙ ᓯᐅᑏᒃᑲ ᖁᕕᐊᑦᑐᖕᓈᓪᓚᖕᓂᕐᒪᑕ ᐃᓄᒃᑑᖃᑕᐅᔪᒥᑦ ᑐᓴᖅᖢᓂ.

[Inuktitut text translated as follows:]

Thank you. I have a question for Andy. First, thank you for speaking in Inuktitut. It is good to know my ears get happy hearing someone talking in Inuktitut.

[English]

I want to ask my first question to Andy Moorhouse. I want to acknowledge that it was wonderful to hear you speak in Inuktitut. I never knew that my ears could feel pleasure in hearing Inuktitut. I really appreciated your introduction when you began. You've done such a good job of describing really well the inequities that exist for northern communities.

I'm wondering how the federal government has been receptive to the calls for supports you mentioned. Has this brought any increases to any supports you've needed in northern communities?

Qujannamiik.

[Andy Moorhouse]

[Witness spoke in Inuktitut as follows:]

ᓇᑯᕐᒦᒃ, ᓇᑯᕐᒦᒡᓗ ᐅᐱᒋᕙᒋᑦ ᓘᕇ ᑕᒫᓃᖃᑕᐅᒋᐊᖅᐱᑦ.

[Inuktitut text translated as follows:]

Thank you, and thank you too Lori. I am honoured you’re here with us.

[English]

With regard to the issues we've had with accessing federal programs, one is the challenging bureaucracy we have to deal with in order to access certain amounts of funding for our local businesses or to be able to provide programs that would serve the population.

It's also the challenge of the timeline we have to deal with in order to ensure, as an example, access for the short shipping season. We need to be prepared by this time in order to access and be in time for this coming summer's shipping schedule.

So it's all about timing and about having access to the best programs available, or at least having the programs earmarked and geared toward specific Inuit regions, as an example.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

I have another quick question. What investment should the federal government be making to offer northern communities opportunities that are equal to those of southern communities?

[Andy Moorhouse]

I think the biggest support would be subsidies in regard to infrastructure, either in the form of grants or at least in the form of long-term, interest-free loans. That would be one of the best avenues in order for us to have access to funding to gain that capital required for businesses to succeed in the north.

It's challenging enough to be able to construct this infrastructure, but it's also another challenge to keep them operating. So either grants or, at least, interest-free loans, would be the best options for northern Inuit denougut.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much, Andy.

My next question is to Carlana Lindeman.

I really appreciate the programming that you offer for first nations, Métis and Inuit communities.

We all know that systemic racism exists, because the mainstream society has not been fully aware of the history of the atrocities hidden from Canadians. Have you considered any programming to help educate mainstream students so that they can become aware of the realities faced by first nations, Métis and Inuit students and why it's important to support first nations, Métis and Inuit in terms of economic development as well?

[Dr. Carlana Lindeman]

The entrepreneurships are three of our nine major programs.

One of the other major programs we have is what we think is one of the world's largest virtual libraries. It's called “Promising Practices in Indigenous Education”. It is research, resources, classroom curriculum, teaching ideas and exposés, if you like, about residential schools and truth and reconciliation. It's focused on educators, policy-makers, parents, students, student teachers and universities and on kindergarten to grade 12 and early education.

We added a whole section on COVID when COVID broke out so that we could help schools with strategies to support their schools and their communities, particularly the on-reserve schools and the northern schools.

We also do up-to-date issues and the media. It's free. It's widely used. Most the materials are Canadian; about a third are in French. We also have some materials from Australia, New Zealand and the States, but they're primarily Canadian, and we're always looking for new material. For anything that's about curriculum or in the news, we add it, and we are constantly asking people how to improve our site.

Thank you for letting me speak about that. That wasn't part of our focus. We also definitely have sections on supporting indigenous business from a student's point of view.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Idlout. That's the six minutes.

Colleagues, we're extremely tight on time, but I'd like to start a second round, a truncated one. We'll just get through four people: the Conservatives for three minutes, the Liberals for three minutes and one and a half minutes for each of the Bloc and NDP.

I'm going to assume that all of you want to ask at least another question. On that assumption, I'd like to give the floor to Ms. Stubbs for three minutes.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to each of the witnesses for spending time with us today and for your testimony.

Thomas, I completely hear what you are saying. I got your message about long-term sustainable relationships that are not just about checking off boxes on a list or doing the bare minimum. I think, from my observations, that it's safe to say this can apply both to the Crown's duty and interactions with indigenous people and indigenous communities, as well as, often, the private sector's relationship with indigenous people and indigenous communities.

I wonder if you could address maybe your top three—or however you would like to explain it—specifics that either are barriers or suggestions to improve on both fronts—access to capital and capacity building with government—as well as expand on the comment you made about initiatives linking businesses and entrepreneurs with private sector businesses and private sector investment, and the importance of equity partnerships and actual ownership.

[Thomas Benjoe]

That's perfect. Thanks.

To use an example of one of the more unique business models that we currently have as an organization—and we're on the brink of hopefully securing some major renewable energy projects in Saskatchewan—we've built a limited partnership model that allows us to help lead, as FHQ Developments, the negotiations with our partners. Our partners are willing to give up 50% equity in these major projects. These are $500-million and $750-million projects, and they're willing to give us that equity position. Alongside that, it means that we do have to spend a great deal of time accessing the CIB, talking to NRCan and all of the set-asides that have been set up in those programs for us to access.

We have negotiated with our partners to give us access to further equity capital, and the intent here is that we now have a seat at the table. Once we have a seat at the table, we can dictate policy from a board level and now be able to say what are the economic impacts we want to see from these projects: how we want to see employment, how we want to see reinvestment and how we want to see the spend with indigenous businesses—real spend with indigenous businesses—and make sure that we set the policies on how we do that.

Only through having a major equity stake in these major assets are we going to be able to dictate the rules of the game. This would give us—indigenous communities—more power to be able to ensure that there is greater economic impact and that we are a bit more involved in the projects, and that we are building capacity and managing the maintenance of those assets, so that it's not just one big project and we get to see all this tremendous benefit and then it goes away, right?

We want to be able to continue to see that success and the maintenance of those assets ongoing. Being a part of these types of projects, especially major assets, is multi-generational wealth. On an asset for a wind turbine or a solar project, you're looking at anywhere from 25 to 40 years. That could be up to 40 years of wealth generation in cash flow going back to our communities as own-source revenue that can be used for further investment in the things we need in our communities.

That's just an example of how we've deployed a new business model to help us access capital and to see that there is multi-generational wealth. We're crossing our fingers and hoping for access to some of these projects and that they will be approved for us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Ms. Stubbs.

Mr. Powlowski, you have three minutes.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I want to get to Ms. Lindeman because we're both in Thunder Bay, but before that, I want to comment that I'm noticing the art in the backgrounds of several people. Mr. Benjoe and Monsieur Garon have nice pictures, which brings us to Mr. Moorhouse and his Inuit carving that is sitting right above him.

Now, whereas many artists around the world struggle to survive, Inuit artists are exceedingly well known as one of the few communities that I think can count so many successful artists who have been able to make a good life for themselves out of art. Perhaps there are some lessons there in terms of economic prosperity: It doesn't always have to come from the traditional sources.

Having said that, let me quickly go on to Ms. Lindeman. You talked about the Cromarty school here. Certainly, within both the public and the Catholic school boards, there are a lot of indigenous students. Could you tell me a little bit about how you think we can be doing better in Thunder Bay in terms of equipping indigenous students to be able to have a good life? Certainly, we both agree on the importance of education and that goal.

If you get by that quick enough, maybe we can ask Mr. Moorhouse about Inuit art. Thanks.

[Dr. Carlana Lindeman]

I'm a former teacher and principal, and I was the inspector for Dennis Franklin Cromarty High School. I know the school well.

I think there's a real focus now in many school boards and many schools to support indigenous students, which for sure wasn't there decades ago. I think the fact that we have data, that we're asking students, “what do you want, what's going to be best for you and what are the supports you need?”, means that we're not making decisions on their behalf but having them as part of the team and better involving families, parents and extended family as well.

I think all of those things are very important, particularly with what's happening at Mattawa and the Northern Nishnawbe Education Council, and also with KiHS, the Internet high school, and the school boards. I think they have a very positive relationship, and they all have a common goal. We want these kids to succeed. We want these students to succeed.

Thank you.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Moorhouse, do you have any comment on the success of Inuit art economically?

[Dr. Carlana Lindeman]

That's beautiful.

[Andy Moorhouse]

I believe this is what you're referring to. It's locally sourced rock, locally carved by an elder, a means of passing on a tradition of knowledge, of history. One of the stories we have with this piece is that they're a family and they're working towards ensuring that they have success in the next hunt.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Powlowski and Mr. Moorhouse.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor for a minute and a half.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Fortune has favoured me. I will be able to ask the question that I didn't have time for earlier.

Mr. Moorhouse, you spoke about great economic successes, including Air Inuit, which you alluded to earlier. Given the circumstances and all the factors that we discussed earlier, including your geographic location, I imagine that your communities must face unfair competition of some kind.

Can you tell us about a specific project that is difficult to carry out but that has potential and might be more likely to succeed if it were located in a community in the south or in a non‑indigenous community?

[Andy Moorhouse]

There are a lot of businesses within our communities that seem to succeed with partnership, but in order for a business to succeed, it needs the opportunity to have a partnership and the opportunity for priority of contract.

Where you don't have that support, where you have, let's say, multi-million dollar companies in the south that have the backing of banking institutions or other partnerships that they may have in the south but that do not intend to provide economic opportunity for the community they're presiding in or working in, I think that's where the challenges are. That's in general.

In a sense, it's ensuring that priority of contracts, let's say, on reserve for reserve communities or in our state ensuring that a priority of contracts is given to Nunavik Inuit enterprises or Inuit enterprises in general across the Canadian Arctic.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you, Mr. Garon.

Ms. Idlout, you have 90 seconds.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much.

I have a quick question for Thomas Benjoe, because I've really appreciated his description of that great program they had to offer.

I wonder if you have data on your success rates and whether you have an estimated number of recipients, on an annual basis, who use the programs you've described today.

[Thomas Benjoe]

In terms of data on the success of a lot of our companies, in most cases we have started our businesses with zero capital. That's where we've leveraged government funding. We continue to just reinvest more of our own capital into more businesses, which creates a greater economic impact.

When we look at our nations that are accessing our services, from hosting events to releasing communications into the communities, we're talking about tens of thousands of indigenous individuals, not just from our territory but right across Canada and internationally, who are following a lot of the strategies and programs we're developing and the partnerships we're creating. So there are a lot of people listening in, and we're quite excited about being a younger development corporation in Canada and being able to demonstrate some new ways of thinking.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marc Garneau]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Thomas Benjoe, Andy Moorhouse and Carlana Lindeman, for your very informative presentations and for answering all of our questions. You've pointed to some of the barriers and challenges but also to some of the opportunities, and that's exactly what we're studying at the moment, so we very much appreciate your taking your time today to be with us.

We wish you all the best, and we'll continue until we put out the report. Thank you very much for your input.

To committee members, we have to be out in about seven minutes but we have some committee business to look at. We need to decide whether to adopt the subcommittee report, which will allow us to get under way for our second study.

Is there a motion from the floor on this?

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Mr. Chair.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

I have a question, but Michael McLeod is going to speak. My question is probably related to his.