Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on May 7th, 2026

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, ON]

Thank you very much, Senator.

Grand Chief Fiddler, you've been here so many times—and not just at this committee, but at many others. I think we'll have to name a room after you or something like that.

My colleague Eric Melillo has some questions for you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

You have three minutes, Eric.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Schmale, for being so kind as to share some time with me.

It's good to see you again, Grand Chief. I appreciate your comments.

I was going to ask you about the consultation process, but some other members beat me to that. Maybe we can circle back if you have more to say on it, but I think you really hit the nail on the head in saying in your opening remarks that we're trying to make the most discriminatory, racist piece of legislation less racist.

I'm curious to hear you expand further on how Bill S-2 fits into the broader discussion of moving away from the act itself or taking down colonial structures to allow for more empowerment and more self-determination of first nations. Could you speak to how you see Bill S-2 fitting into that broader process?

[Grand Chief Alvin Filddler]

That's the broader conversation we should all be having. Rather than focusing on certain aspects of the Indian Act, we should have a broader conversation about how we begin to move beyond the Indian Act.

As a first nations person, I'm governed by the Indian Act from the time I'm born to the time I die—to even which coffin I'll be buried in. To me, that's wrong. At some point we need to talk about.... I think about my own kids, and hopefully later on my own grandkids. I don't want them to be subject to that.

As we talk about this and certain aspects of the Indian Act, we should all be engaged in a broader conversation about how we begin to move beyond that. We've started that conversation at NAN, and I think we need to have the conversation in a much broader environment, even in committee rooms like this, to figure that out.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

I appreciate that.

I also appreciated your earlier comments around the fact that we should be able to get these things done. It shouldn't take this long. I've been elected, now, for almost seven years, and have been on this committee for most of that time. We've done a lot of good work here, across party lines. We brought forward a number of reports that the analysts worked very hard to make coherent. They sit on a minister's desk and don't get moved forward. I just want to echo the frustration you shared.

I don't have a lot of time.

Could you speak, in the time I have left, to some of the personal aspects of Bill S-2—things you're hearing around the second-generation cut-off in NAN territory and in northwestern Ontario?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

You have 17 seconds. It's not a lot of time.

[Grand Chief Alvin Filddler]

Earlier, I mentioned Red Dress Day and how important it is to commemorate missing and murdered indigenous women and girls in order to ensure that the MMIWG commission's calls to action are fully implemented. This is part of that. Our sisters and moms have been harmed so greatly by the state—by the colonial pieces of legislation that proceed to have an impact on our lives.

We need to start somewhere. If you can figure out how to do this with Bill S-2, that, to me, would be a really good start.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you, Chief.

Next we have Ms. Lavack for five minutes.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses who've joined us today. Their time and their testimony are truly important.

From its inception, Bill S‑2 had a very specific purpose and timeline. It aimed to resolve the whole issue of emancipation affecting over 3,000 first nations people. However, the desired timeline for this bill may not be met because amendments were made to aspects that the government had committed to resolving. From the moment we took office last spring, we committed to addressing the second-generation issue.

In 2023, we began a collaborative process to jointly develop this legislation with first nations. I emphasize the word “collaborative” because we are not just talking about consultation. That means that together, we wanted to address and resolve this issue. We wanted to create a bill that would be as robust as possible, with the approval and input of first nations.

For me, it's important to note that the government had a specific goal, which is why it did not want amendments to the bill. On the one hand, we had a goal to achieve and a timeline we were trying to meet. On the other hand, we wanted to develop this new bill that would address the issue.

My question is for you, Chief Fiddler, and concerns the collaborative process. Did your nation participate in the government's collaborative process seeking first nations' input to find ways to address the issue of exclusion after the second generation?

[Grand Chief Alvin Filddler]

We've been having these conversations for some time now. As I said, we had our spring assembly with the 49 chiefs of NAN in Toronto in March, where we gathered with our advisory councils, including the women's council, the youth council and the elders council. This is what they talked about—how these policies continue to harm many of our families.

That's where our direction comes from, and as I'm the grand chief of NAN, that's where my mandate comes from. I come to committee rooms like this and speak directly to those who have the authority to make these changes.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

Can you tell us about your experience with this collaboration so far, what it means for your nation, and what you hope for moving forward?

[Grand Chief Alvin Filddler]

As I said earlier, it's been a mixed experience. It depends on the piece of legislation we're dealing with at the time. Sometimes we are totally excluded from the room. For example, I mentioned what happened last spring with the creation and passage of Bill C-5. We were not even allowed to be in the room when the committee was inside deliberating.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

This time, you were invited to collaborate. You participated in the collaborative process. If you were consulted, collaborated on the process and discussed it, I would like to know more.

[Grand Chief Alvin Filddler]

That's why I'm here. I was invited, and I made sure to be here to speak with you directly.

[Ginette Lavack, Liberal, St. Boniface—St. Vital, MB]

I have a quick question for Mr. Guilderson.

You mentioned the possibility of another provision. Do the amendments go far enough? We're talking about an opt-in amendment. Shouldn't we first complete this collaborative process, which should happen in the coming weeks or months?

Shouldn't this be an opportunity to use the information gathered during collaborative sessions and the subsequent analysis to take the amendments further, and possibly include things like the opt-in opportunity?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

I'm sorry, Councillor, but we're out of time. You can send that in writing to us. We'll take into consideration the clause that you think is missing.

[Hayden Guilderson]

Yes, that sounds good. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Now we will go to Ms. Gill.

You have two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

As my colleague said earlier, we need to act quickly. I spoke about urgency. I hope the committee will decide to move forward and conclude its study of the bill before the summer recess.

I'll give Chief Epp or the other witnesses a chance to say a final word.

In my view, we already have the answer. For example, my party supports the bill as amended. I think we're ready to get to work and proceed to a vote.

First nations agree, and they are the ones most directly affected. As a non-indigenous legislator, I feel uncomfortable deciding the identity and future of other nations.

I would like to know if you are ready to move forward. Yes, the bill can always be further improved, but I believe that first nations are watching the decades pass and their extinction draw near. Can we move forward right now? If there is anything else to be done, we'll do it afterwards.

[Michèle Audette]

Colleague, I'd like to take 30 seconds to make a point.

Not only does Bill S‑2 address the Nicholas decision, it also deals with natal band membership, deregistration, and offensive terms. Other issues have been added. It also allows us to bring in all the other issues stemming from the Indian Act.

We're talking about collaboration with first nations. Spending $20,000 on such an important exercise shows, in my view, a lack of respect when it comes to collaboration. Let us be sincere.

Thank you, and I hope you will vote in favour of Bill S‑2 as amended.

[Grand Chief Alvin Filddler]

Thank you for that.

We've been doing our own work with our own communities with our own consultation process. I think it's been made very clear by our people that this needs to be addressed and that we need to abolish the cut-off. The sooner we can move on this, the better, so we can give that assurance to our families.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

That concludes this panel. We will suspend to give you enough time to vacate before the next one comes in. The senator knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Thank you very much to all of you for your words today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Welcome, everyone, to the second panel.

Appearing as an individual, we have Cynthia Lapierre.

From the Anishinabek Nation, we have Marsha Smoke, southeast regional chief. Hello.

Grand Chief Linda Debassige was not able to be here due to an understandable circumstance. We wish her all the best.

From the Assembly of First Nations, we have National Chief Cindy Woodhouse Nepinak with us by video conference, and in the room with us are William David, in-house senior legal counsel, and Julie McGregor, chief of staff. Thank you very much.

From the citizens' group Les enfants d'Aataentsic, we have Mario Huneault, civil engineer.

To kick it off, make sure you have your earpieces in, because people are going to switch between questions in English and French, and make sure you're on the channel of your choice and that you have the volume up.

Let us begin with Cynthia.

[Cynthia Lapierre, As an Individual]

[Witness spoke in Wendat and provided the following text:]

Ndio aweti'. Cynthia Lapierre yiatsih. Ohskënonton' iwayitiohkou'tenh. Wendat chia' Franco-Ontarienne endi'.

[Witness provided the following translation:]

Hello, everyone. My name is Cynthia Lapierre. I am Deer Clan. I am Wendat and Franco-Ontarian.

[English]

I am the descendant of Hermine Bastien Lainé, who was born and raised in Wendake and was a resident of her community until her wedding day. She was among the first nations women who were stripped of their Indian rights and forcibly removed from their communities to assimilate to the settler colonial state from 1869 to 1985 for marrying a non-indigenous man.

My granddaddy, James Tweddell, was proud to remind his children and grandchildren of our Wendat heritage. Though I did not know or understand at the time, he was trying to transmit what little he could, what little he knew, because he was never recognized. He lovingly and proudly transmitted what he could. He planted a seed.

I am the first since my great-grandmother to return to Wendake and to have my Indian status. I continued my granddaddy's legacy of re-establishing our connection, and I succeeded. Today, with more and more confidence, I affirm my Wendat identity.

I am a part of my community. I work in Wendat language revitalization. I am a longhouse woman. I am a smoke dancer at powwow. I am healing and celebrating the connection that was lost for three generations. Studies have found that trauma is intergenerational, and I'm here to tell you that healing is also intergenerational.

A few weeks ago, Troy Chalifoux said, “you have not heard anything new.” His statement propelled me to want to share my story, a story that has not been heard as much, a story of the Descheneaux case, descendants of women who lost their status and the ones buried for generations who are now regaining their rights. The Indian Act tried to bury us, but it didn't know that we were seeds. We regained our rights as Canada repaired sex-based discrimination in the Indian Act, but we're not here to talk about Bill C-31, the McIvor case or the Descheneaux case.

Why is my story relevant to Bill S-2? It's because history is repeating itself. There are children in our communities who are ghosts. They have no rights or recognition or belonging. When these children turn 18, they will be forced to leave their communities, like my great-grandmother, who was forced to leave when she married.

These children, like my granddaddy, are socially and culturally excluded and forced to live out their lives as Canadians. You assimilate from birth and deny all potential for cultural transmission to future generations, thus committing genocide in real time. The McIvor and Descheneaux cases brought corrections to sex-based discriminations, yet Canada continues to uphold its discriminatory policies, such as with subsections 6(1) and 6(2) of the Indian Act.

Let's not forget when and why these were created. With Bill C-31 in 1985, some women and their children regained their rights. The Indian Act had to adapt to uphold its objective of genocide and give women and children their status while introducing a second-generation cut-off. It's working.

As of today, registered Wendat aged zero to 39, those having or who will have children, are 87% subsection 6(2). They can't pass on status. If Bill S-2 is not passed, their descendants will suffer as the last three generations of my family have suffered. They will be buried, but I can guarantee you this: They are also seeds.

As long as Canadians continue to live on Turtle Island and benefit from its renewable resources, so too is your accountability to the treaties between us, and so too is your accountability to not only address but repair the harm the Indian Act has caused and continues to cause. Ending the second-generation cut-off will break the ongoing cycle of genocide in the Indian Act.

You have heard it all—the legal, political, ethical and human reasons to move forward with this bill. I call on you to do the right thing. Today, at this very moment, it is you, the members of Parliament, who have the power to right the greatest of wrongs in the Indian Act and to pass Bill S-2 with amendments made by the Senate to ensure the survival of our nations and all faces yet to come.

The headline that I'd like to see this year is, “In 2026, the Indian Act turns 150 years old. Canada, in a true act of reconciliation, abolishes its original objective of the genocide of first nations by implementing a one-parent rule that guarantees their survival for all time”.

Someday, it is your descendants who will look back on this day in Canadian history with pride knowing that you finally did the right thing.

Io.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Meegwetch.

Next up we have Marsha Smoke, southeast regional chief.

You have up to five minutes, Marsha. If you weren't here at the beginning, when you get to about 30 seconds left, I'll say “30 seconds” so you can wrap it up. Then there's going to be lots of time for dialogue with the MPs.

Go ahead.