Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 4th, 2026

[Joseph Murdoch-Flowers]

We don't directly benefit from the harvester support grant. I believe that this piece of the nutrition north program is administered to the indigenous organizations, the Inuit organizations. It is Nunavut Tunngavik Incorporated that receives that money and then distributes it to the regional Inuit organizations. Then I believe it goes down directly to hunters and fishers—individual Inuit who are members of those regional Inuit organizations.

The support we receive directly from the federal government for the hunting economy comes via the Agriculture Canada local food infrastructure fund money, which is for organizations. It's not specifically for indigenous organizations but for non-profits and charities, such as us.

Anything that supports getting Inuit the tools they need to go hunting and fishing is something we support.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

I appreciate that answer.

We'd point out as well a concern we've heard about nutrition north more broadly many times throughout the course of this committee. I've had the honour of serving on it for many years now. There's been a lot of discussion around how narrow nutrition north is and how it goes to the retailers, when perhaps it should go to the transportation companies or to the individual consumers themselves. There's been a lot of discussion about how to tinker with nutrition north. I think what we've been hearing here today is that across the north there are affordability challenges, certainly with food but also beyond food.

Is it perhaps more beneficial to look at bringing up wages, whether it be through economic development, as my colleague mentioned earlier, and looking at those growth opportunities, or even, with the government spending we have now on nutrition north, perhaps repurposing it into something more clear, such as an increase to the northern allowance? Then those living in the north could have access to funds but have more freedom in how they're spent and more transparency to ensure that they're actually going towards the things they need.

[Joseph Murdoch-Flowers]

As I mentioned at the outset, the Qajuqturvik Community Food Centre is part of a national food organization called Right To Food. I believe my colleague Jasmine Ramze Rezaee spoke at the finance committee last week about the advocacy pieces we do in partnership with the poverty action unit at Right To Food. We focus on things like the groceries and essentials benefit, the Canada disability benefit and the working age supplement and have a target for the elimination of severe food insecurity by 2030.

The perspective we bring to that advocacy is that Inuit want to have access to what everyone else wants to have access to—food where we choose ourselves what we're going to eat. That includes market foods, but it also includes country foods. In order to get there, we need to support the programs that give hunters and fishers the opportunity to choose hunting and fishing as a viable career option.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Next we have the MP for Nunavut.

Lori, you have five minutes.

[Lori Idlout, Liberal, Nunavut, NU]

Qujannamiik, Chair.

Qujannamiik to both witnesses for sharing such great testimony.

My questions will be directed to Joseph Murdoch-Flowers.

I really appreciate what you mentioned earlier about some research that Qajuqturvik has done. I'm hoping you will agree to share the research with the committee.

I want to focus on the testimony you shared regarding the hunter salary network that you're proposing. I know, for example, that the James Bay and Northern Quebec Agreement already has a similar model where, through an income security aspect, they pay salaries to hunters. I wonder if you're aware of that program and if you can speak to it.

[Joseph Murdoch-Flowers]

I'm not familiar with the James Bay program. I am, however, familiar with the Ilisaqsivik program in Clyde River. I went to Clyde River last summer to observe their program, to learn from it and to hopefully adopt some of the ideas they implemented there in order to bring them back here.

Essentially, the Ittaq program in Clyde River is a program where they employ five hunters full-time. The hunters go out for days at a time and bring young people with them to go hunting and fishing. They bring the catch back and share it with the community. The benefits of this type of program, as I alluded to in my initial remarks, go way beyond simply bringing back meat. It has the effect of supporting Inuit culture and supporting Inuit wellness.

[Lori Idlout, Liberal, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much for that. I can appreciate why you're focusing on Inuit wellness.

Basically, what we've seen in Nunavut is a lack of recognition of the strength of Inuit and the economy that we're expected to try to use. What I appreciate about the focus on hunters is that you're advocating for using or supporting a system that recognizes the strength of Inuit hunters and fishers.

I wonder if you could talk about the Inuit child first initiative and where you have seen a difference in people's lives. From your research, for example, is it true that when people had access to a consistent income, there was a reduction in people in Iqaluit coming to the food bank?

[Joseph Murdoch-Flowers]

I provided the slides of that research with Dr. Sappho Gilbert to the clerk of the committee, so you should all have access to that document.

With Dr. Gilbert, we looked at a number of different income supports—the Inuit child first initiative money and COVID supports. We observed that on the day of the deposit of funds for these supports into people's accounts and the week following that, food centre use declined significantly. The one that had the greatest correlation, I suppose, was the Inuit child first initiative money distributed via the hamlet grocery voucher program. I believe that was last year.

Yes, the correlation is very strong.

[Lori Idlout, Liberal, Nunavut, NU]

If I still have time, I would definitely love to hear more about Ilisaqsivik and what it does. Do you think this could be replicated in other communities across Canada?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

I'm sorry for interrupting, but the clerk has received your slides. They're with translation and will be distributed.

Go ahead and take 30 seconds or so to finish up.

[Joseph Murdoch-Flowers]

Thank you very much.

Ilisaqsivik is a non-profit charity in Clyde River that has developed over the years. It has grown and capitalized on various research partnership opportunities that have translated into hunting and fishing jobs. They now employ five hunters and fishers. They have equipment that's paid for, insurance and salary money. All this goes into supporting a program that is all about hunting, fishing and the transmission of intergenerational knowledge among Inuit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much to both of our presenters. That was very informative.

We are going to suspend briefly in order to get ready for our next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Welcome back, everyone. I'll get everyone to settle in.

Before I introduce our next witness, I would like to make a few comments for the benefit of the new witness.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. As you are participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you're not speaking. You're on Zoom, so you have a button on your screen to select floor, English or French. Questions will be asked in both official languages. I'll remind you that all comments go through the chair.

Now I'd like to welcome, from Aurora Geosciences Ltd., Gary Vivian, a professional geologist from Yellowknife.

Are you in Yellowknife right now, my friend?

[Gary Vivian, Professional Geologist, Aurora Geosciences Ltd.]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Okay. You have up to five minutes to make an opening statement, if you please.

[Gary Vivian]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to address the committee.

To make everybody in the room happy, I do not have five minutes of opening comments because I'd rather answer questions.

I have been living in Yellowknife since 1977. I am a professional geologist. We work from Mary River all the way to the Casino mine in the Yukon. I have extensive experience dealing with Dene, Métis and Inuit cultures. I'm hoping I get questions on some of that, but the affordability question has been huge in NWT and probably Nunavut for many years. I hope I can answer all of your questions.

I really don't want to take up any more time. I'd rather answer questions, if that's okay with the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

I see a lot of nodding heads at the committee, so thank you, my friend.

We're going right to questions. MP Zimmer will go first.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Gary, for appearing at committee. It would have been nice to have you down here in Ottawa, but I know that's quite a trek.

Gary, we're having an affordability study today. I mentioned the definition of affordability before, but I'll say it again, because why is a miner at an affordability study in Ottawa? Affordability is the financial ability of individuals or households to pay for essential goods and services, such as housing, health care and food, without experiencing financial hardship or compromising their ability to meet other basic needs.

I have an article here from May 6. It's from the Yellowknifer: “NWT’s GDP continues to contract, largely driven by declining resource extraction”. It says:

According to Statistics Canada, the NWT was the only jurisdiction to experience a decline in gross domestic product (GDP) for 2025.

Statistics Canada says the NWT had the weakest economic performance in 2025, falling by two per cent....

Gary, how is the Northwest Territories doing economically?

[Gary Vivian]

That's a wee bit of a loaded question, Mr. Zimmer, but thank you for that.

I truly believe that in order to have an economy, you need a good base economy, and that's based on resources. I think that's our strength. Our strength in the Yukon, NWT and Nunavut is our resources, specifically mineral resources.

The diamond mines have been depleting for a few years, and if you looked over the last four or five years, you'd see that the GDP from resources has been dropping significantly. We have not been thinking about what the next step in resource generation would be, and it creates a huge problem. If you're not looking for mines, you'll never develop mines.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

That's all about exploration, Gary, isn't it? That's often a measure that most people who aren't miners don't understand. Exploration has the advanced team for actual mining to take place, and we know that Canada is one of the most difficult jurisdictions around the world in which to mine. It takes 19 years from start to finish—from when a mine starts to when it actually starts producing a resource and can profit.

I'll go on. It was strange to me, Gary, knowing the economic situation, that one of the first announcements the Prime Minister made was that he was going to turn 30% of the Northwest Territories into a park. That was an initiative from environmentalist groups, some of which are from foreign countries. They are contributing $75 million. That's the seed money from environmental groups. One is the Pew foundation, from the U.S. This was a combined effort, with $300 million coming from the Canadian taxpayer.

This is my next question: If the economy is doing so poorly, do you think it's a good idea for the Prime Minister to announce that he is turning 30% of the Northwest Territories into a park?

[Gary Vivian]

Well, when you look at protected areas, parks and conservation areas, you see that probably 30% of the territories is currently removed from any exploration opportunities, so I would argue that we're there already.

There's a problem when you announce those sorts of things. I'll use Thaıdene Nëné as an example. That was a 33,000-square-kilometre park that Łutsël K'é and the federal government suggested be removed from exploration. What they did was basically alienate probably one of the best areas in the Northwest Territories for an IOCG-type deposit. I don't want to go into—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Gary, what's IOGC?

[Gary Vivian]

It's iron oxide, gold, copper. It's a bit like what Broken Hill, or BHP, has in Australia. It's one of the largest deposits of critical metals in the world.

What the federal government does is it decides on areas that they want to alienate. Then they do what they call a MERA—a mineral, energy and resource assessment. The problem is that as an advocate, you're also using your people to alienate that land. I believe that should be done by private industry, not by the federal government. I think you would then have a fairer MERA.

We actually raised a public concern on alienating all of that land in perpetuity, because that's essentially what happens: A significant sector is removed to help reconcile and deal with the economy of the NWT.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Could you maybe clarify something for this room? I talked to some of the leaders there, and they were under the understanding that they could still develop resources once an area is put under protection.

Once a territory or a park is put under these protections, taking the 30% as an example, can resources be developed in that area?

[Gary Vivian]

If it's federally withdrawn, they cannot, no.

There is a territorial park around the federal park, which is how they reconciled freezing the 33,000 square kilometres in perpetuity, but the territorial park still has significant issues where you can develop inside. It will be outside of permitting to deal with that. It's still a significant problem, and it alienates industry.