Indigenous and Northern Affairs Committee on June 4th, 2026

[Will Greaves, Liberal, Victoria, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Good morning, colleagues, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

My question is also for Mr. Murdoch-Flowers. Thank you for joining us, sir.

As you may be aware, earlier this year the Prime Minister announced an investment of $1 billion in the Arctic infrastructure fund to help build and expand the most important transportation infrastructure in the northern part of our country. I'm wondering if you could speak to how you think that money could best be allocated in the north to help address the supply chain challenges and cost of living issues there, particularly related to food affordability, as you've spoken to this morning. What could that money do to help reduce the cost of food for people in Iqaluit and other northern communities?

[Joseph Murdoch-Flowers]

I believe the Qikiqtani Inuit Association has provided some good work to us on investments in infrastructure—transportation infrastructure, small craft harbours and so on. That's transportation infrastructure in terms of airport upgrades to increase efficiencies of transportation to the Arctic, and then small craft harbours, deep-sea ports and so on for the marine economy.

In terms of infrastructure investments in the Arctic, there is the local food infrastructure fund, which we benefit from at Qajuqturvik for support of the hunting economy. We have applied for and received money that encourages us to participate in the hunting economy. I have a couple of hunters on staff who are excited about that.

In terms of—

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

We have to go to the next questioner, but I'm sure this can come out later in questioning. Thank you.

Mrs. Gill, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today. I must say that, as the member of Parliament for a northern region, I understand their situation. By the way, I would like to extend my greetings to Mr. Jones, the warden of a Basse‑Côte‑Nord RCM located in my constituency.

We didn't talk about this, but perhaps we should explain that, in our case too, Mr. Jones, the Basse‑Côte‑Nord is an enclave. It's a bit like Nunavut, in the sense that there isn't any transportation. We're supplied by a ferry, which doesn't run year‑round or on a regular basis. The problem isn't just the price of food. It's also access to food.

I have a great many topics to discuss with you. I'll certainly name a few, and I'll let you talk about the ones that you want to address. You represent all the Basse‑Côte‑Nord communities. However, if you have any information to add, please feel free to send it to the committee. My colleagues and I will take it into account in our report.

I'm thinking of the post office, for example. I know that, even for you to take part in today's committee meeting, you had to get organized. We can't send a headset to Basse‑Côte‑Nord in a week. It takes at least three weeks. Only Canada Post delivers mail there.

I'm thinking of the deduction for remote regions. A number of people in my constituency have talked to me about this issue. This deduction hasn't been indexed for years. Yet just about everything in the government is indexed. The deductions are designed to help northern residents in remote regions, but they aren't indexed. I think that this would be a good idea for all of us to work on.

We also have the seal hunt. You spoke about fishing, but we have the seal hunt in our area. I'm also thinking about licences. I found it interesting to hear you talk about the sentinel cod fishery licence. This government restriction is jeopardizing the fishing economy in our area.

Housing is another issue.

We also need to think about safety. We have many forest fires as well. So almost everything in our area is open to development. This is true for airports and wharves, but also for safety. Perhaps you could comment on this too.

I've contacted the Minister of Transport a number of times, but I still haven't received a response regarding the wharves in our area.

We talked about airports, but the wharves are also affected. We hear about defence and strategic infrastructure. However, at the same time, access to the land is being cut off in regions where people should live.

I could keep on talking about all matters relating to indigenous people. We have two indigenous communities in our area too.

We also have air passengers rights. The government is currently threatening these rights by turning over to the private sector all matters relating to complaints previously handled by the Canadian Transportation Agency. From now on, subcontractors paid by the airlines themselves will handle these matters. So we're wondering how people will be able to receive compensation. We know that this is extremely important in our area. Cancellations and delays take place almost every day.

I've said a great deal, but now I'll give you a turn to speak. Of course, you can send additional information to the committee in writing.

I have a lot to say, Mr. Chair.

I'll let you speak, Mr. Jones.

[Daren Jones]

Thank you, Mrs. Gill. I also have a great deal to say.

I'll give you an example. I'm in La Romaine this morning to take part in your committee meeting by video conference. I've taken the helicopter three times this week, and it was late all three times. There are always small changes, but that's fine.

I'll give you another example. The residents of the town of Chevery have access to gasoline delivered to Harrington Harbour by a Harnois company boat. I didn't choose Harnois, but this company delivers our fuel. The Harnois boat doesn't go to Chevery, so the locals must send the fuel from Harrington Harbour to Chevery. The Chevery residents must pay an additional tax of 35 cents per litre to cover the cost of transporting the fuel to Chevery.

When it comes to food, I'm thinking of Saint‑Augustin and Pakua Shipi, two communities located one kilometre apart. Studies were carried out in both 2002 and 2004 on the possibility of creating a bridge between the two towns to increase access, since there are many ties between the two places. A number of Saint‑Augustin residents work for the Pakua Shipi community.

We also had to carry out a study on forest fires. You referred to this problem, Mrs. Gill. Saint‑Augustin residents have about two hours ahead of them, since the town is surrounded by forests. If the tide is out, evacuating people becomes a problem. The Saint‑Augustin community may even be basically forced to watch the town go up in flames from the water's edge. They have no way to get to the other shore, to Pakua Shipi, which has a wharf and an airport.

When it comes to transportation out of the town, the hovercraft doesn't operate 24 hours a day. This means that, if an emergency takes place in Saint‑Augustin and a patient needs medical attention, the patient can't be transferred immediately to the airport. Fortunately, we have a good team of responders in Saint‑Augustin. We're able to stabilize the person until we can get them out of town.

In addition, people from the Pakua Shipi community come to our area to go to the bank, the grocery store, and so on.

Saint‑Augustin has a fire truck, but Pakua Shipi doesn't. So if a fire breaks out in that community, there isn't any way to send in a fire truck.

There are a number of challenges.

For example, the crane on the Bella Desgagnés vessel broke down at the start of the season, and the vessel had to return to Sept‑Îles. The problem was that it returned to Sept‑Îles with all the goods, such as tomatoes, potatoes, oranges and milk. When delivered, these products aren't always as fresh as when we buy them at the grocery store in Quebec City or Montreal. However, we have no choice but to take what we have.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

It's better to have Grand Pré milk than fresh milk. At least, if the delivery doesn't work, we have supplies.

[Daren Jones]

That's right. Also, when the delivery doesn't go through, we use helicopters to transport the goods.

Sorry. I think that I interrupted you.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

No. It's just that I could see the clock ticking. I was looking at the chair and thinking that maybe I would get lucky.

We can come back to this later and talk about other topics.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

Next we have our special guest, Tamara Kronis, MP for Nanaimo—Ladysmith.

Please go ahead.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, for welcoming me to this committee.

Mr. Jones, my questions are also going to be for you.

As I was listening to you speak, I was hearing echoes to some degree of life in my riding. I often tease my colleagues that they have planes, trains and automobiles, but we add seaplanes, ferries and helicopters to get here. Nanaimo, where I live, is actually the largest city on Vancouver Island, at just over 100,000 people, and people are surprised that I often cannot take a cellphone call in my driveway and frequently have to pull over to the side of the road in order to finish conversations with people.

I see my colleague Madame Gill nodding.

I want to give you an opportunity. If you had an urban federal MP visiting and they spent three days in your area and saw everything you wanted them to see, what do you think would surprise them the most?

[Daren Jones]

In three days, we may not get out of the community due to transportation services.

What would they see? They would see 14 communities on the lower north shore, seven of which are not connected by any road system. They are connected through helicopters, boat taxis and so on. They would see the everyday struggle to get just everyday, essential services, such as food, for one. Getting out to medical appointments is number two. There is beautiful scenery. Let's add that the lower north shore is one beautiful place to come to.

I'll give an example right now. This is my fifth day on the western edge of the lower north shore, and I've been on three planes, had three helicopter rides and had one boat ride. I still have to go to Kegaska after this today, which means I have to fly to Natashquan, because there's no airport in Kegaska, and I have to come back to Kegaska via road. That's the reality of living here.

They would see people who want to grow their own food, make a sustainable place to grow and hunt, and get back to fishing. As Mr. Murdoch-Flowers has mentioned, we have those communities there, and they want to get back to the ground. I grew up here, and my Sunday dinner was the treat of getting a chicken or a piece of pork, but the rest of the time, food came from the water and the land. It's about getting back to that.

As we start to have more agricultural knowledge, we have the grounds to grow food, but we don't have the grounds to store it. We have all these projects, but when we come down to ask for a community storage shed or cold storage to keep the fruits and vegetables we grow, that's where our problems come into play.

[Tamara Kronis, Conservative, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

That's a great place for me to ask my second question.

Where I live, we too are very focused on food sovereignty and food security. There are many federal programs focused on subsidizing costs, but we hear over and over again from people living everywhere in Canada, especially in remote communities, that people would like to be able to provide for themselves.

I just want to give you a chance to talk a bit about, based on your experience, what policies would help remote communities like yours become less dependent on subsidies and more economically self-sufficient.

[Daren Jones]

First of all, I spent the day yesterday at Tête-à-la-Baleine, which is another isolated community here. There's a fantastic lady there who has a farm called the Rigolet. She has all of this land that's ready to grow food, but she wants a subsidy to build a cold storage and preparation unit so she can hold the food all winter. She can grow carrots, potatoes and turnips—the root vegetables we have. The biggest fundamental obstacle she ran into is that after she applied for a subsidy and got word back that this was great, a false hope was built up and then all of a sudden it vanished.

I guess my ask would be that if we don't fit the criteria, you say no right away so we can find other avenues, because we're waiting on responses sometimes for months. If the answer is no, let it be no. We're all adults. We can handle the no, but let us get our own things, even if that means going to the private sector and having the private sector build it and then we rent it from them. We're constantly chasing these subsidies, and if there's no money available, let us know. We are entrepreneurial. We want to feed ourselves. We want to do these things, but we are always roadblocked. We hear, “Hey, why don't you apply for this subsidy?” and then it never comes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much.

Next we have the MP for Labrador, Philip Earle.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be directing my questions to Mr. Jones. If I use his first name, it's because we grew up together. I'm from Labrador. He's from Blanc-Sablon. There is no border there, despite it being Quebec and Labrador.

Mr. Jones, we both know the reality of the region that you represent. I really appreciate you being here today as a witness.

As my colleague from the Conservative Party stated, regardless of where the region is, we have many similarities and challenges in Canada. Obviously, what you talk about from the lower north shore is very similar to some of the communities that exist in coastal Labrador in particular.

There's some uniqueness of programs directly related to the lower north shore that I have familiarity with. You know that I come from the airline sector. I ran the airline that serviced that particular region. Nutrition north Canada is a program that we heard about a few minutes ago, and it has significant funding from the Government of Canada.

The uniqueness of the lower north shore, as you would understand it, is that that particular program is administered through the STQ in Quebec to equalize freight costs in the summer and winter. That is to say, during the summertime, the food goes in on a ship. In the wintertime, it goes in by an airplane. It's flown in for about three months of the year.

Can you talk to us a bit about what you see on store shelves relative to prices? Do prices go up in the winter when food is being flown in compared to the summer, or is the program that's administered by the STQ working for the people of the lower north shore?

[Daren Jones]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Earle.

Overall, we see some price equalization there. However, some of the time it comes in through private carriers, so we see a little price increase there. If you look at the communities that are serviced by them, they are somewhat normalized. Any change to that program would certainly hinder us.

This program has been offered elsewhere in Canada. Let's just say that if you put in a road system and still need a subsidy.... That's when food prices went up, actually—when we had more access.

Overall, we're seeing somewhat of a stable thing. There's not much change from winter through to summer.

[Philip Earle, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

As you and I would know—I think it's important for our colleagues to understand this—in the wintertime, food is trucked from Havre-Saint-Pierre to Fermont and down to Blanc-Sablon and the communities there.

I was a bit surprised that you didn't talk about Route 138, which stops right now in Kegaska. If that particular road was constructed to connect all of the lower north shore, taking it into Old Fort and Blanc-Sablon and giving a connection to the island, how do you see that as benefiting the economy of the lower north shore and bringing down costs? Do you want to speak to us about that for a few minutes?

[Daren Jones]

I will.

To touch on Quebec for one second, they came out with a study saying that Quebec is aging and we're aging out well. I can tell you that the study produced in Quebec has been our reality for the last eight years. We are one of the quickest declining places in Canada right now—I would say in Quebec, just to be safe. Our median age is above 58, and so far we've seen a decline of 8% of our population.

What would the road do? The road would bring back our youth, exploratory opportunities and tourism. We have one thing we can offer down here, and that's quite a beautiful coastline. That road would change the way we do everything. It would reduce the cost of the ferries and boats that we currently get subsidized. It would reduce the cost of transportation. Mr. Earle just pointed out the length of driving to get food around in the winter. We wouldn't have a dependency on aircraft to get our people to....

I'll give you an example. The Lourdes-de-Blanc-Sablon airport is in fog due to the fact that we're on the Strait of Belle Isle. Let's say you had to drive up there. About an hour to the west are Saint-Augustin and Pakua Shipi. They're more isolated communities where fog doesn't really get in that often. We can drive a person up there and get them on the plane and out to their appointment.

We are aging out. By 2050, 18% of our population will be gone due to passing away. The road would bring back the vitality and tourism we need. I'd say we can become the next Fogo Island if we give it a chance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you very much for that.

MP Gill, you have two and a half minutes.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Of course, we would need a road, if the federal government ever wants to help out with this. It would even be nice to have an interprovincial connection between Quebec and Newfoundland and Labrador. I should point out that the ferry that currently makes the connection and goes to Blanc‑Sablon, in our area, is paid for by Newfoundland and Labrador. I'm not supposed to complain that Quebec doesn't pay for the ferry. In any event, this interprovincial connection doesn't exist.

I think that, as the warden, you're quite interested in development. We talked about the road, which would bring tourists to our area and would also entice people to come and live here.

In terms of development, you're also extremely interested in all aspects of mariculture or aquaculture. I would like to invite my colleagues to come to Rivière‑Saint‑Paul and Salmon Bay to see what Ms. Buffitt and her family are doing in our area.

I think that this type of development could provide support for our region. On the one hand, this would promote food sovereignty. On the other hand, this could encourage people to come to all parts of our region. That way, we could make a loop. We're talking about the road because it would really enable us to make a loop with Newfoundland and Labrador. From there, it would be possible to go on to Gaspésie or the Maritimes.

Mr. Jones, I'll let you have the rest of my time.

[Daren Jones]

I completely agree with you, Mrs. Gill. Projects such as the one in Salmon Bay could easily be replicated seven times in various other regions of Basse‑Côte‑Nord, and I think that this is a low estimate. I do believe that we could develop farms on this scale in the area and attract tourists. I've even had these discussions with Ms. Buffitt, who said that we could develop this. It's simply a matter of subsidizing the start of the project. Once the start is ready, we would be set to go. We can support a sizable economy ourselves just by selling agricultural products that people need all over the world.

For example, I went to Harrington Harbour, where crab is currently processed. It's packed in crates. It goes from Harrington Harbour to Rimouski, then on to Boston. The next stop is Boston, Massachusetts. It isn't even delivered to Canada.

This is just one example. The world is asking for these products, and we have them in abundance. So we can forge our own path in this area.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Sheehan]

Thank you.

MP Eric Melillo, you have five minutes.

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to start with Mr. Murdoch-Flowers.

If I'm not mistaken, you mentioned earlier that there is support for local hunting and harvesting to help create food sovereignty and a more culturally appropriate diet. That caught my attention, because I know the government has in place a harvester support grant, which aims to support that right now.

I'm curious. Could you speak about whether or not you see that grant as being helpful right now? Should it perhaps be enhanced, or should the program be brought forward in a different way? You mentioned—and I agree with you—how important it would be to ensure that those in the north have sovereignty and are able to provide food for themselves.

[Joseph Murdoch-Flowers]

Are you referring to the grants that are available through the nutrition north program?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora—Kiiwetinoong, ON]

Yes.