Industry and Technology Committee on March 26th, 2026

[Nicole Vlanich]

Exactly.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to turn my remaining time over to Mr. Guglielmin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

There are about two minutes and 45 seconds remaining.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

In light of what you said, I'm going to take this opportunity to move the following motion:

That the committee unequivocally condemn forced labour practices in China.

I would like to remind this committee that it was a Liberal government that first acknowledged the Uyghur forced labour camps and the human rights abuses. That's been widely recognized by the United Nations and other human rights groups. I'd also like to point out that it was Beijing that detained the two Michaels for over 1,000 days.

Also, it's not because of the Chinese people, of course, but because of the government in China, that Huawei was banned here in Canada and that TikTok has been removed from government devices.

These are serious threats and serious issues facing our country and we, as a collective here at this committee, need to come together and condemn this. I would also like to point out that there's a record of IP leakage and IP theft. There's a record of using their economy as geopolitical leverage.

I'd like to move this motion because it's unclear here if Mr. Ma has deviated from the Liberal Party's long-standing opposition to Chinese enslavement and human rights abuses or if he's soft launching the Liberal Party's new position on these issues.

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Mr. Guglielmin, I have to respond to a point of order. You'll maintain the floor after I deal with this.

Go ahead, Mr. Bardeesy.

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

A motion has been moved, but I'm not sure if we're moving directly into debate on the motion or what's happening exactly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

My read of the situation is that Mr. Guglielmin has not concluded moving the motion and that these are his remarks in relation to moving the motion. Once he's made it clear that the motion is moved.... I haven't seen or heard the motion.

Mr. Guglielmin, I imagine you're getting there. I might encourage you to move on with the preamble as soon as you can and get to the substance of the motion itself so that I can, along with the committee members, first review it and determine its substance, and then we can decide where we go from here.

The floor is yours Mr. Guglielmin.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I'll go back to the conclusion of my little preamble, as you've said.

It's just unclear if MP Ma's remarks are at odds with the Liberal Party's position and the government's position or if he's soft launching the Prime Minister's new position on the Communist Party of China, their sort of permissive view on enslavement and the potential national security risk to our country.

I did state the motion up front and I'll state it again, and that is: That the committee unequivocally condemn forced labour practices in China.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

I'm going to suspend briefly so that there's an opportunity for us to have that circulated. Sometimes it's helpful to have a couple of minutes for members to think about how they want to address a motion that's being table-dropped.

I'm going to suspend very briefly to make sure we get the proper wording. We will come back momentarily.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

We're going to continue.

Mr. Guglielmin, you've presented your motion. I don't think you had anything further to add.

I had some hands up prior to that. I had Ms. Kirkland and Monsieur Ste-Marie, and I now have Mr. Bardeesy.

Monsieur Ste-Marie, you're pointing to Mr. Bardeesy as if you want to give up your time, which you can do, but I have Ms. Kirkland first.

Ms. Kirkland, are you okay with us going to Mr. Bardeesy, or do you want the floor first?

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I would like the floor first. Are we speaking to the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Okay. The floor is yours. We are on debate on the motion.

[Rhonda Kirkland, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I feel this motion is really important. I lived in China for a couple of years, and as a Canadian parliamentarian, I was appalled and disturbed when it very much seemed like a parliamentarian across the way was defending China when it's our job to defend the national security of our country, Canada.

The motion is very short and very clear that we unequivocally condemn certain practices. I would expect this committee to find it easy to do that and unanimously vote to condemn those practices. It's as simple as that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you, Ms. Kirkland.

Mr. Bardeesy.

[Karim Bardeesy, Liberal, Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The witnesses have expertise on the subject we're currently studying.

Our party will support the motion. We want to continue with the witnesses.

I want to note that we will be supporting this motion so that we can move on and return to the witnesses, and clear the record, if there was any doubt. I didn't see any doubt in the line of questioning in the first hour that would cast any doubt on this question.

We want to move on and also make sure that we focus on the things that are of concern to this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you for that, Mr. Bardeesy.

Mr. Ma.

[Michael Ma, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Mr. Chair, since my name was mentioned in the background of the motion, I'd like to set the record straight that the question for the witness was whether she had witnessed the forced labour in Xinjiang that she claimed existed. I made no assertion of either support or denial. I just asked whether she had witnessed it, period. That was the line of questioning.

Many times, we have asked different witnesses whether they have seen certain things that they have claimed. Those are very legitimate questions. If the Conservatives want to turn this into a political situation, then shame on their side.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Thank you, Mr. Ma.

Mr. Guglielmin, you have the floor. I will note, for the sake of what happens next, that Mr. Bardeesy seems to have indicated support from the Liberal side. I presume the Conservatives are supportive of this as they are the movers of the motion.

Mr. Ste-Marie, from the Bloc Québécois, said he will support the motion.

Mr. Guglielmin, I will turn the floor over to you. There's probably an appetite for one or two more pieces of commentary, but we've quite clearly and publicly established support for the motion, and I would encourage us to get to a vote quickly, given that we know the positions of the parties, as it will allow us to re-engage with our witnesses who are here today.

Mr. Guglielmin, the floor is yours.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I'm glad to see we have unanimous consent to support this motion, because, frankly, during the testimony, the line of questioning was set to discredit the witness's authority. The way you went after her in that line of questioning was in defence of the fact that.... You asked her, “Hey, have you actually ever seen this?”, meaning there is no slave labour in China.

[Michael Ma, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

You are implying, sir.

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I'm glad.... You implied—

[Michael Ma, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

I was asking—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ben Carr]

Mr. Ma, the floor—

[Michael Guglielmin, Conservative, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

We're glad to hear, on this side—