Evidence of meeting #46 for Industry and Technology in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was scams.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Hines  Head of Fraud Product, Interac Corp.
Harroun  Vice-President, Compliance and Enforcement, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission
Brun  Vice-President, Government Relations, Desjardins Group
Lapalme  Senior Director and Deputy Head, Fraud and Financial Crime Management and Supervision Unit, Desjardins Group
Hutton  Vice-President, Consumer, Analytics and Strategy, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Karim Bardeesy Liberal Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON

Thank you.

Maybe this is more of a comment than a question, and then I'll hand it over to Mr. Bains.

One of the tools that we as MPs have to communicate with the public is our monthly householders and newsletters. Sometimes print products are an untapped resource in the fight against things like fraud and in informing constituents, especially those who are a little less technologically literate. Maybe it's a consideration for the kinds of products that might come from your very trusted resources that we could start putting in our householders.

Parm Bains Liberal Richmond East—Steveston, BC

Thank you, Mr. Bardeesy.

Thank you, Mr. Chair

Thank you to our witnesses for joining us today.

I'm going back to a previous witness who came here representing the Canadian Association of Retired Persons. As we know, that community is probably one of our most vulnerable. They are Canadians who ultimately built this nation, and we need to make sure that we're protecting them.

During their commentary, they talked a lot about the fact that CRTC could do more with protection. I know you've recognized the blocked calls and some of the other measures you've taken, but they talked about gaps. I'm interested to know this. During your work, are you seeing gaps in some protections that you could close and that you're working towards? Maybe you could talk a bit about that.

4:35 p.m.

Vice-President, Compliance and Enforcement, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission

Steven Harroun

Obviously, I come from a different perspective at this table. I'm responsible for a civil legislative regime. There's not much I can do about true fraud, true crime or true criminal behaviour. Where I've taken my approach within my sector and the compliance enforcement sector at the CRTC is that compliance is number one, which is ensuring legitimate companies comply with the telemarketing rules, the anti-spam rules, etc.

In that same vein, if I can't deal with it through a compliance measure, I do have the tools at my disposal sitting in the communications regulator, where I can ask the TSPs to do certain things. That is where we get to the policy measures I spoke to you about. One of the examples I gave was billions of calls being stopped using AI technology to identify fraud calls. Being able to do that means that phone never rang, so Canadians have never picked that up and they've never fallen victim to that scam, which is fantastic.

One of the things I mentioned earlier was education. I wouldn't dismiss the power of education, especially when it comes to our seniors and our vulnerable communities, whether that's new immigrants who don't speak English or French as a first language or low-income individuals. Education is about helping them understand the scams, which is all I can do in a civil regime. I can let them know that these scams exist and tell them what to look for and how to protect themselves. Pause, and consider whether this is legitimate: Is this too good to be true? Is this too bad to be true? Verify before you click on that link and before you claim your $4 million. It is about that verification piece.

For me, as the regulator of a civil regime, education is critical, because the more Canadians are aware of scams, the less likely they are to become victims.

The Chair Liberal Ben Carr

Thank you very much, Mr. Bains.

Colleagues, that's all the time we have. The vote will open up in just about two minutes. What I'm going to do is suspend and give everyone the opportunity to vote. If folks stay in the room and don't go too far and everybody confirms that they voted, we can get right into the business ahead of us. We do have two hours beyond what we have now to complete the tasks at hand, but the quicker we get to it, the quicker we can get out of here.

I want to thank our witnesses for making themselves available today. This has been a very important study and an eye-opening one.

As Ms. Begum referred to earlier, one of the things I always appreciate about opportunities like this is that it goes beyond partisan lines. There is a desire on the part of all members from all parties who represent Canadians across the country to tackle this issue. It's one that all of our constituents are victims of and one that we're rightly seized with at the moment, and we couldn't be seized with it if not for the expert advice and guidance we get from individuals such as yourselves.

On that note, I want to thank you very much for making yourselves available.

Colleagues, I'm going to suspend. It will be up to your teams to make sure that you vote. I'll see you again in a couple of minutes.

[Proceedings continue in camera]