Evidence of meeting #8 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was crtc.
A video is available from Parliament.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
We can go quickly. We can do maybe two and a half minutes for the next two rounds. Is that fair? Okay.
MP Dreeshen, go ahead for two and a half minutes.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Thank you very much.
First of all, Ms. Schroeder, from listening to the testimony that you presented, I think one of the things is that once a senior has been duped, no matter what the situation is, there's always that fear that the kids are going to say, “Well, you can't handle your money so we're going to have to look after it for you.” I really think there has to be more of a campaign, a “you are not to blame” campaign, because we can see this happening all around.
I think that's one of the things you were alluding to, but I'll just try to say it a little more bluntly. I really think that's something we should think about in our discussions.
Mr. Baran-Chong, you talked about various things that we can do, and as I mentioned before, with the seniors, I think investing in public education is worthwhile, so that those folks understand that.
You did have a section on this, the Canadian call to action. You've talked about how the CRTC doesn't seem to be interested, and you just mentioned how the telcos seem to be hiding their heads in the sand as well.
What would you suggest, in the next minute and 10 seconds, that would help us in that regard?
12:50 p.m.
Co-Founder, Canadian SIM-swap Victims United, As an Individual
I think it's worthwhile that there be further study into industries and how they're using authentication methods.
In particular, for example, a lot of banks still promote text-based two-factor authentication which, as we mentioned, we're really trying to move away from. We need to really encourage these industries that possess either financially or personally sensitive information to not only introduce these non-SMS-based two-factor authentication methods but also proactively encourage their customers to use them. A lot of these apps ask you for your phone number, and that's the first thing they come out with. You could maybe anticipate that it's because they want this extra data part of you, but we need to get the industry agencies to really promote non-SMS-based 2FA.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
The last two and a half minute question will go to Madam Lambropoulos.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you.
I'd like to thank both Mr. Baran-Chong and Ms. Schroeder for being with us today to answer our questions. As most of my questions have been answered, I'm going to ask Ms. Schroeder a couple of more specific questions.
You were talking statistics before and you said that this year approximately 4,000 fraud cases have been committed in Canada. Were those specifically involving seniors or just generally?
12:55 p.m.
Board Member, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
Do you mean for these specific statistics?
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Were these seniors who were defrauded or the general population?
12:55 p.m.
Board Member, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
Those were Canadians in general.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Do you know how much the senior population has been affected specifically?
12:55 p.m.
Board Member, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
I don't have the statistic available at this particular moment, but I think the scary part of that is that, based on what we know, the reporting rates of fraud are extremely low.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Are the ones you have worked with specifically complaining mainly about cases they've received on an actual land line or on a cellphone? What's the more—
12:55 p.m.
Board Member, Canadian Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse
I think it's a combination of both. There are a lot of land lines still, but I do think it is still cellphone based and then.... Yes, it's both, certainly.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Baran-Chong, you said something that struck me. You said that cellphone companies are often open, especially for the business accounts, from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m., and this is a 24-hour war that these people are fighting.
What are your specific recommendations with regard to this that would help people in your situation in the future?
12:55 p.m.
Co-Founder, Canadian SIM-swap Victims United, As an Individual
After that incident happened with my cellphone, I was able to reach Visa immediately. They have a 24-hour hotline to report fraud. Why is it not the same for the telco companies? I even tried calling the consumer line, which is 24 hours but they don't have access to my business information.
If you possess financially or personally sensitive information, you should have some form of access to a 24-hour hotline to report that and to block that so it can't go further.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
On a point of order, Madam Chair.
I don't want to be disruptive, but the schedule we have says we meet until one o'clock. I have one short question to ask the witness. I would ask for your indulgence, or unanimous consent, to ask that question. It's a simple one, and then we can move on. I would appreciate that.
12:55 p.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Very quickly, with regard to the CRTC study, how important do you think it is that it be done right away?
12:55 p.m.
Co-Founder, Canadian SIM-swap Victims United, As an Individual
As long as the door is open, there will be more victims. The CRTC needs to get the plan from the telcos. It needs to understand how it plans to implement it. It needs to enforce the execution of it. It should involve the public, the users, and the people who are facing these threats.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
With that, I'd like to thank the witnesses for sharing their stories and educating us on the realities that are facing Canadians today.
I'd like to ask the members to stay momentarily. We need to have a quick review of the three study budgets, including the one on Bill C-4, which has already been concluded, so that we can reimburse witnesses for some of their expenses.
I will let the clerk explain the documentation in front of you with respect to the three study budgets.
12:55 p.m.
The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Michael MacPherson
I really don't have much else to add. These are all mainly estimates based on aggregate witness expenses, and any money not spent is clawed back.