Industry Committee on Oct. 7th, 2024

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

I don't have that information with me.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Well, as it was publicly reported, Mastercard's revenue was $25 billion U.S. globally.

What was the operating income?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

I don't have that with me at the moment.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It was $14 billion U.S. last year.

What was the net income?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

It was probably around $11 billion.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It wasn't around that; it was $11.1 billion. You do know the numbers.

Cybersecurity is very critical for everybody at this table. Is that right?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

Of course.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Can you tell me how important it is for Mastercard? I see you recently bought another cybersecurity company for $2.1 billion called Recorded Future.

What can you tell me about cybersecurity, its importance and how much you spend on that a year?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

I don't have the exact numbers. I can tell you that, strategically, it's one of the important pillars we're focused on. We've talked a lot about the role Mastercard plays as the network and safety and security, cybersecurity particularly, especially in light of October being cybersecurity month. It is particularly important for our business going forward.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

When you made $11 billion in net income last year, and you just spent $2 billion buying another cybersecurity company, why is it that in 2020, former Liberal industry minister Navdeep Bains had to give you $50 million to help with cybersecurity? You have that kind of profit margin and you have the ability to go out and buy another cybersecurity company for $2.1 billion.

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

Mr. Perkins, is this a question specifically about the cybersecurity centre in Vancouver?

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Why is it that Mastercard needed $50 million from the federal government to pledge toward improving cybersecurity, when you were already putting billions of dollars toward it?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

We're very proud of our cybersecurity centre in Vancouver. It's a centre of excellence for us. It's one of the first in the world.

We invested $500 million in that centre. It is exceptional because it generates Canadian IP, which is kept here in Canada and will be commercialized as Canadian IP. We see the value in driving cybersecurity from Canada, and it's something that we remain very proud of.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Does Jennifer Sloan still work for you?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

She does.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Jennifer Sloan used to be the chief of staff in the Liberal government of Jean Chrétien. Her job, I believe, is in government relations.

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

That's correct.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

She was instrumental in getting the $50 million, obviously, because she had a pile of meetings with the industry department. She was lobbying it before that announcement was made to get you $50 million.

Why is it that a company with $25 billion in revenue and $11 billion in profit needs $50 million from the taxpayer for cybersecurity to protect consumers?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

I understand the question. Ultimately, it's very important for us to recall that we've spent $500 million specifically on the cybersecurity centre in Vancouver. We're very proud. We've generated over 90 Canadian patents by Canadian researchers, and they will be commercialized from Canada within the Mastercard network.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It appears you don't need the $50 million, so will Mastercard return it to the taxpayer?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

Mr. Perkins, again, we've done a great job. We're very proud of everything we've committed to in Vancouver. It's generating significant patents, technology, infrastructure and everything that's important to Mastercard as a cybersecurity centre of excellence, and we're committed to that for the future.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

The Liberal government has a history of handing out money to corporations that don't need it. Loblaws received $18 million for fridges. I think Loblaws can afford fridges. You got $50 million for cybersecurity, when you're spending huge amounts—billions—of money. Thankfully you are, but I just don't understand why you need taxpayer money to do what is your job, which is to have a secure credit card system for Canadians.

Why is it you need taxpayer money when you have billions to do it on your own? Isn't that your job?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

Mr. Perkins, we're very proud of everything that's coming out of the cybersecurity centre of excellence in Vancouver. Again, 90 patents is not an insignificant number. We have a big team. We have a big office there. We're generating new use cases every day and every week, and we're proud to stand behind everything that's being delivered from the cybersecurity centre.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Perkins.

Mr. Arya, the floor is yours for six minutes.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Dorey, I listened to your speech and went through your notes. You mentioned that the companies that generate and earn revenue from interchange fees invest in network security to prevent fraud, but you did not mention that part of it goes to fund the rewards. Did you mention that?